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Not to diminish the value that a DJ brings for music, but I think if the labels took less than 70% then Twitch and the DJ is ripping them off. At least, when y

by tinco 2y ago

Not to diminish the value that a DJ brings for music, but I think if the labels took less than 70% then Twitch and the DJ is ripping them off. At least, when you consider anything in excess of a 30% platform fee, the amount Apple, Google, Steam etc. consider to be reasonable, price gouging. From the music creators perspective, a DJ is a platform showcasing their music, so it makes sense they'd pay the DJ some fee. If it's less of a service platform, and more like a retail store, than taking a larger amount like the 50-70% might be reasonable, but it feels like a bit of a stretch, as retail stores have very high overhead costs in comparison. I wonder what the real calculation was to get to that 30-50%, and if the DJ's really do consider it to be a lot.

lelandfe 2y ago
> Not to diminish the value that a DJ brings Proceeds to diminish DJs’s value. A mix isn’t a playlist, nor a platform. Comparing a DJ’s mix to a retail store hawking individual songs makes it seem like you don’t have much appreciation for mixes.
- gizajob 2y ago
  Being brutally commercial about it though, DJs on Twitch produce content wholly dependent on other people's content – pre-recorded music. It's only reasonable that if the DJs are getting paid, the content creators they depend on should get paid alongside. Nobody is going to pay to watch a DJ tweak a CDJ over and over without the tunes that someone else made.
  - diggan 2y ago
    Not sure how it's different from DJs who don't play on Twitch but in real venues. The tracks they're playing are (most often) purchased from other producers already, which is money that goes to the creators of the tracks (+ other owners) already. Depending on the platform, creators get different shares of that price.
    - miunau 2y ago
      Proper, hard-working DJs submit track lists from gigs which then compensates artists through copyright and performing arts agencies, which is way more money than the $0.50 you get from a single track sale. This has been standard for decades and is no different from Twitch collecting revenue. You can also submit tracklists from online events these days. Although in my experience most DJs are lazy (or do not know of this scheme), and this stuff needs to be automated. Pretending that the DJ's experience matters more than the music they play is cringeworthy for any DJ worth their salt. Nobody beside self-centered assholes think this way about themselves. And this is not even getting to how a lot of DJs don't even pay for their music.. big names have a constant stream of free promos coming their way, and you can sign up on any number of promo lists from labels to get their latest releases delivered in your inbox. It used to be that they mailed out physical vinyl, for free!
Spivak 2y ago
I mean I think DJs should basically pay what any other artist does to cover a song. It's weird that the meme of DJs "playing other people's music" is still so pervasive when whole music festivals with 50-100k attendees are dedicated to them. Anyone whos listened to pop for the last 20 years probably has songs produced by DJs littered through their liked songs without even knowing it. Odeza was nominated for a Grammy his stuff is so good. DJing has evolved into performances of live music production. Apache brings an orchestra with him, Illenium has a full band, Sullivan King writes and performs all his own licks and plays them during his performances, Griz's saxophone game was legendary.
- tinco 2y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean, I just checked out Odesza, and their album only contains original music. They're not the sort of DJ that would livestream a mix of other peoples music, unless I'm mistaken?
  - input_sh 2y ago
    You're confusing DJing with producing music. They're completely separate, yet intertwined skills. You can be an excellent DJ that sucks at making music, and you can make excellent electronic music but still suck at DJing. Most DJs don't produce their own music, therefore they just play other people's music. Those that aim for international fame have to produce their own music, which then becomes a part (but not the entirety) of their DJ sets. Those that have been producing their own music for quite a while (like Odesza) do have enough that they don't need to play other people's tracks, but that gets pretty stale pretty quickly. If you've listened to Odesza once, it's gonna be pretty identical the next time, similar to a band performing a concert (but even more identical). Then there's also labels, which are like the crown jewel of electronic music. It's not enough to just make music, you have to find a label that will publish it. The bigger the label, the bigger the exposure. Not just in terms of sales, but because DJs/producers associated with a label tend to boost each other's careers by playing each other's tracks (with the added benefit of not having to worry about copyright). The really really big labels also organise their own parties and festivals. To name some of the biggest ones: Ultra Music Festival (UMF) = Ultra Records, Electric Daisy Carnival (EDC) = Insomniac Records. So, if you consistently get your music released by Insomniac/Ultra, odds are they're gonna invite you play in front of hundreds of thousands of people, even if 95% of them have never heard of you. That's how you get like 5 headliners that are there to get the people to come and 30 or so supporting acts that are there to play before them, warming up the crowd before the main act. There's this excellent crowdsourced website (https://www.1001tracklists.com/ https://www.1001tracklists.com/) where fans keep track of all of that. If there's a recording of a DJ set available anywhere online, odds are some fan has gone through the trouble of identifying most of the tracks. Click on a couple of sets on the homepage, check out the list of artists whose tracks they play, and you'll see all of this in action. In some cases, all original. In some cases, all released by one label. In most cases, mostly other people's music.

by tinco 2y ago

lelandfe 2y ago

> Not to diminish the value that a DJ brings Proceeds to diminish DJs’s value. A mix isn’t a playlist, nor a platform. Comparing a DJ’s mix to a retail store hawking individual songs makes it seem like you don’t have much appreciation for mixes.

gizajob 2y ago
Being brutally commercial about it though, DJs on Twitch produce content wholly dependent on other people's content – pre-recorded music. It's only reasonable that if the DJs are getting paid, the content creators they depend on should get paid alongside. Nobody is going to pay to watch a DJ tweak a CDJ over and over without the tunes that someone else made.
- diggan 2y ago
  Not sure how it's different from DJs who don't play on Twitch but in real venues. The tracks they're playing are (most often) purchased from other producers already, which is money that goes to the creators of the tracks (+ other owners) already. Depending on the platform, creators get different shares of that price.
  - miunau 2y ago
    Proper, hard-working DJs submit track lists from gigs which then compensates artists through copyright and performing arts agencies, which is way more money than the $0.50 you get from a single track sale. This has been standard for decades and is no different from Twitch collecting revenue. You can also submit tracklists from online events these days. Although in my experience most DJs are lazy (or do not know of this scheme), and this stuff needs to be automated. Pretending that the DJ's experience matters more than the music they play is cringeworthy for any DJ worth their salt. Nobody beside self-centered assholes think this way about themselves. And this is not even getting to how a lot of DJs don't even pay for their music.. big names have a constant stream of free promos coming their way, and you can sign up on any number of promo lists from labels to get their latest releases delivered in your inbox. It used to be that they mailed out physical vinyl, for free!

Spivak 2y ago

I mean I think DJs should basically pay what any other artist does to cover a song. It's weird that the meme of DJs "playing other people's music" is still so pervasive when whole music festivals with 50-100k attendees are dedicated to them. Anyone whos listened to pop for the last 20 years probably has songs produced by DJs littered through their liked songs without even knowing it. Odeza was nominated for a Grammy his stuff is so good. DJing has evolved into performances of live music production. Apache brings an orchestra with him, Illenium has a full band, Sullivan King writes and performs all his own licks and plays them during his performances, Griz's saxophone game was legendary.

tinco 2y ago
I'm not sure what you mean, I just checked out Odesza, and their album only contains original music. They're not the sort of DJ that would livestream a mix of other peoples music, unless I'm mistaken?
- input_sh 2y ago
  You're confusing DJing with producing music. They're completely separate, yet intertwined skills. You can be an excellent DJ that sucks at making music, and you can make excellent electronic music but still suck at DJing. Most DJs don't produce their own music, therefore they just play other people's music. Those that aim for international fame have to produce their own music, which then becomes a part (but not the entirety) of their DJ sets. Those that have been producing their own music for quite a while (like Odesza) do have enough that they don't need to play other people's tracks, but that gets pretty stale pretty quickly. If you've listened to Odesza once, it's gonna be pretty identical the next time, similar to a band performing a concert (but even more identical). Then there's also labels, which are like the crown jewel of electronic music. It's not enough to just make music, you have to find a label that will publish it. The bigger the label, the bigger the exposure. Not just in terms of sales, but because DJs/producers associated with a label tend to boost each other's careers by playing each other's tracks (with the added benefit of not having to worry about copyright). The really really big labels also organise their own parties and festivals. To name some of the biggest ones: Ultra Music Festival (UMF) = Ultra Records, Electric Daisy Carnival (EDC) = Insomniac Records. So, if you consistently get your music released by Insomniac/Ultra, odds are they're gonna invite you play in front of hundreds of thousands of people, even if 95% of them have never heard of you. That's how you get like 5 headliners that are there to get the people to come and 30 or so supporting acts that are there to play before them, warming up the crowd before the main act. There's this excellent crowdsourced website (https://www.1001tracklists.com/ https://www.1001tracklists.com/) where fans keep track of all of that. If there's a recording of a DJ set available anywhere online, odds are some fan has gone through the trouble of identifying most of the tracks. Click on a couple of sets on the homepage, check out the list of artists whose tracks they play, and you'll see all of this in action. In some cases, all original. In some cases, all released by one label. In most cases, mostly other people's music.