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What particular value is knowing GitHub? Git maybe, but GitHub is just too specific.

0x445442 2y ago
Yeah, just spitballing here but it seems like they could make DAG version control systems a unit of study in an algorithms course.
- loudmax 2y ago
  Yes, students should learn the craft, not the tool. The craft here is understanding how to use a version control system, particularly when working on a team. In a practical sense, this usually means learning to use `git`, but it could also be Mercurial or something, and it certainly doesn't need to be a proprietary front-end.
  - zarzavat 2y ago
    In a country with free university tuition, I agree. In a country with paid tuition, universities need to provide education that provides the fastest path to paying off student debt, otherwise they are doing their customers a disservice in life. Far too many programmers exit from university without the skills that industry needs. If universities are places for free learning that's okay, but if you're paying $$$ for such a degree and been saddled with a mountain of debt then I think you've been robbed.
    - hnfong 2y ago
      One could flip your argument on its head and argue that, in countries with free (or subsidized) university tuition, because taxpayers are paying for the tuition, universities should teach things that are demonstrably valuable to provide graduates with a fast path to becoming a productive ($) person in the workforce. If somebody wants to learn "useless" things, they can do so with their own money. (Not that I disagree with your general thesis though. I just think it applies to free uni tuitions as well...)
      - zarzavat 2y ago
        For scholarships yes, but not for mass free or cheap subsidized tuition (e.g. Germany, Norway, Sweden, Scotland, etc). Governments everywhere subsidize the arts because a society where people only go in to economically productive careers is culturally barren. So I don’t think any Government enlightened enough to offer mass free university tuition would be unenlightened enough to see universities as mere training centers for industry, rather than as places of higher education at arm’s length from industry. Whereas when individuals pay fully for their own tuition then they do need to see degrees as training for industry because they have to pay the money back with interest. Interest accrues with time so they need to be productive as quickly as possible. If universities have their students’ best interests at heart then they need to acknowledge this reality and design courses to give students useful skills that will let them pay the money back ASAP.
    - jltsiren 2y ago
      It's your job as a potential student to determine what kind of education is the right choice for you. Especially if you will be paying for it. And it's the job of guidance counsellors (or whatever you have in previous schools) to help you make an informed choice. Research universities have theoretically oriented curricula, because that's what they are good at teaching. They also operate from the principle that universities are places of learning, not places of teaching. The curriculum is just the bare minimum, and students are expected to learn more on their own, according to their interests. For some people, this is exactly the right kind of learning environment. Others may prefer educational institutions that are more active in guiding them towards the right path.
andybp85 2y ago
Isn't showing students where you can find a boatload of real-life examples of the kinds of things their studying kind of obviously a good idea?
- wakawaka28 2y ago
  Yes but if you can't find that without some school telling you, you have zero curiosity and dare I say aren't cut out for this industry.

Yeah, just spitballing here but it seems like they could make DAG version control systems a unit of study in an algorithms course.

loudmax 2y ago
Yes, students should learn the craft, not the tool. The craft here is understanding how to use a version control system, particularly when working on a team. In a practical sense, this usually means learning to use `git`, but it could also be Mercurial or something, and it certainly doesn't need to be a proprietary front-end.
- zarzavat 2y ago
  In a country with free university tuition, I agree. In a country with paid tuition, universities need to provide education that provides the fastest path to paying off student debt, otherwise they are doing their customers a disservice in life. Far too many programmers exit from university without the skills that industry needs. If universities are places for free learning that's okay, but if you're paying $$$ for such a degree and been saddled with a mountain of debt then I think you've been robbed.
  - hnfong 2y ago
    One could flip your argument on its head and argue that, in countries with free (or subsidized) university tuition, because taxpayers are paying for the tuition, universities should teach things that are demonstrably valuable to provide graduates with a fast path to becoming a productive ($) person in the workforce. If somebody wants to learn "useless" things, they can do so with their own money. (Not that I disagree with your general thesis though. I just think it applies to free uni tuitions as well...)
    - zarzavat 2y ago
      For scholarships yes, but not for mass free or cheap subsidized tuition (e.g. Germany, Norway, Sweden, Scotland, etc). Governments everywhere subsidize the arts because a society where people only go in to economically productive careers is culturally barren. So I don’t think any Government enlightened enough to offer mass free university tuition would be unenlightened enough to see universities as mere training centers for industry, rather than as places of higher education at arm’s length from industry. Whereas when individuals pay fully for their own tuition then they do need to see degrees as training for industry because they have to pay the money back with interest. Interest accrues with time so they need to be productive as quickly as possible. If universities have their students’ best interests at heart then they need to acknowledge this reality and design courses to give students useful skills that will let them pay the money back ASAP.
  - jltsiren 2y ago
    It's your job as a potential student to determine what kind of education is the right choice for you. Especially if you will be paying for it. And it's the job of guidance counsellors (or whatever you have in previous schools) to help you make an informed choice. Research universities have theoretically oriented curricula, because that's what they are good at teaching. They also operate from the principle that universities are places of learning, not places of teaching. The curriculum is just the bare minimum, and students are expected to learn more on their own, according to their interests. For some people, this is exactly the right kind of learning environment. Others may prefer educational institutions that are more active in guiding them towards the right path.

andybp85 2y ago

Isn't showing students where you can find a boatload of real-life examples of the kinds of things their studying kind of obviously a good idea?

wakawaka28 2y ago
Yes but if you can't find that without some school telling you, you have zero curiosity and dare I say aren't cut out for this industry.