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I don't think the market for ecologists in the private sector is super hot right now. But even then, I know plenty of researchers who would rather earn half th

I don't think the market for ecologists in the private sector is super hot right now. But even then, I know plenty of researchers who would rather earn half their salary than dealing with the private sector's BS: bad science practices, endless meetings, "Powerpoint or it didn't happen", zero freedom to experiment, having to constantly "dumb it down" to your manager's manager, draconian publication guidelines, "are you sure we can't patent it?", and the list goes on. Research is only a hobby if you don't care about the impact and quality of your work. I'm sure the scientists who drafted the 1982 Exxon Internal Report on Global Temperatures [1] got paid very well for their report to be buried for 30+ years, but I would rather take a lower salary and make sure the fruits of my work actually get out there. [1] https://xkcd.com/2500/ https://xkcd.com/2500/

pjc50 2y ago
> But even then, I know plenty of researchers who would rather earn half their salary than dealing with the private sector's BS: bad science practices, endless meetings, "Powerpoint or it didn't happen", zero freedom to experiment, having to constantly "dumb it down" to your manager's manager, draconian publication guidelines, "are you sure we can't patent it?", and the list goes on. Sure, but I suspect you could find similar complaints from a lot of academics (UK "REF", for example). The UK situation is pretty dire at the moment and is unlikely to improve without the shock of a respected university simply becoming insolvent.
- foobarian 2y ago
  I thought that what OP said described academic life pretty accurately as well! Except dealing with grants, PIs, deans, etc.
xyzzy123 2y ago
> I don't think the market for ecologists in the private sector is super hot right now. You might be surprised to know that there's a fairly big environmental consulting sector. It's serious stuff. Multi billion dollar construction projects can be derailed by the discovery of e.g. a particular kind of unique beetle. I don't know what it's like in the US, but I have met some people in the sector in Australia and they do real work, they're ok with it, they do it with integrity - nobody gets asked to "bury" things. Of course, they DO get asked by their customers what the absolutely cheapest possible way to (legally) solve their problems might be :)
- loudmax 2y ago
  A close relation of mine worked for a decade in the environmental consulting sector. In his case that meant a lot of long working hours and tedious research finding the cheapest possible legal solution. He was kind of miserable at this job. He wasn't asked to bury things or hide anything, but he had studied environmental engineering because he wanted to make the Earth a better place, not to work out the limit of meeting legal responsibilities. I suspect a lot of his misery would have been mitigated if his employers paid a higher salary, but that's what the market demand was for those skills.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    > He wasn't asked to bury things or hide anything, but he had studied environmental engineering because he wanted to make the Earth a better place, not to work out the limit of meeting legal responsibilities. This is an unfortunate reality of much of the private sector, not just environmental engineering. You get into career X in order to [build interesting stuff | solve problems for the world | improve life for your customers], but instead end up in endless discussions with managers and lawyers, deciding what is the bare minimum the team needs to do in order to comply with the exact wording of the contract, while spending the least money.
  - xyzzy123 2y ago
    Yeah heaps of paperwork folks - not all office work though - there are also plenty of people who just work on the land and do surveys etc.

pjc50 2y ago

> But even then, I know plenty of researchers who would rather earn half their salary than dealing with the private sector's BS: bad science practices, endless meetings, "Powerpoint or it didn't happen", zero freedom to experiment, having to constantly "dumb it down" to your manager's manager, draconian publication guidelines, "are you sure we can't patent it?", and the list goes on. Sure, but I suspect you could find similar complaints from a lot of academics (UK "REF", for example). The UK situation is pretty dire at the moment and is unlikely to improve without the shock of a respected university simply becoming insolvent.

foobarian 2y ago
I thought that what OP said described academic life pretty accurately as well! Except dealing with grants, PIs, deans, etc.

xyzzy123 2y ago

> I don't think the market for ecologists in the private sector is super hot right now. You might be surprised to know that there's a fairly big environmental consulting sector. It's serious stuff. Multi billion dollar construction projects can be derailed by the discovery of e.g. a particular kind of unique beetle. I don't know what it's like in the US, but I have met some people in the sector in Australia and they do real work, they're ok with it, they do it with integrity - nobody gets asked to "bury" things. Of course, they DO get asked by their customers what the absolutely cheapest possible way to (legally) solve their problems might be :)

loudmax 2y ago
A close relation of mine worked for a decade in the environmental consulting sector. In his case that meant a lot of long working hours and tedious research finding the cheapest possible legal solution. He was kind of miserable at this job. He wasn't asked to bury things or hide anything, but he had studied environmental engineering because he wanted to make the Earth a better place, not to work out the limit of meeting legal responsibilities. I suspect a lot of his misery would have been mitigated if his employers paid a higher salary, but that's what the market demand was for those skills.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  > He wasn't asked to bury things or hide anything, but he had studied environmental engineering because he wanted to make the Earth a better place, not to work out the limit of meeting legal responsibilities. This is an unfortunate reality of much of the private sector, not just environmental engineering. You get into career X in order to [build interesting stuff | solve problems for the world | improve life for your customers], but instead end up in endless discussions with managers and lawyers, deciding what is the bare minimum the team needs to do in order to comply with the exact wording of the contract, while spending the least money.
- xyzzy123 2y ago
  Yeah heaps of paperwork folks - not all office work though - there are also plenty of people who just work on the land and do surveys etc.