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The regenerative urban garden I: No-till gardening
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- wumbo 2y agoI recommend a hybrid approach. Till a new yard. It probably has chunks of concrete and other garbage from previous owners. It’s worth taking the garbage out of the ground. Then smother the whole yard with cardboard. Then layer wood chips on that. Dig out individual holes for plants and absolutely murder the rest of the ground with mulch. In those holes, add compost, then plants. With good layering, cardboard can even smother the bermuda grass menace.
- CuriouslyC 2y agoYou want to lay cardboard over tall green stuff, then mulch that. The improvement in fertility compared with tilling and laying cardboard over soil is huge. Sheet mulching is amazing for eliminating ivy and other invasive species as well.
- IneffablePigeon 2y agoIt’s often better not to compost under a new plant because it encourages it not to spread its roots. Instead mulch with it and the rain and worms will bring the nutrients down.
- camillomiller 2y agoWhat about the ink and chemicals in the newspapers sheets that the author is using? Wouldn’t that stay in the soil and pollute the crops?
- CuriouslyC 2y agoThe microbes and fungi in the soil act as remediators for most organic compounds. Shouldn't be an issue, but you can always grow perennials in the bed that take time to grow rather than fast growing annuals if you're concerned.
- TuringNYC 2y agoI came here with the same question -- the ink. Why do you feel that the ink is an organic compound? Not sure if there is an easy answer here but this site: https://home.howstuffworks.com/pen4.htm https://home.howstuffworks.com/pen4.htm seems to suggest colored inks are inorganic and contains heavy metals.
- CuriouslyC 2y agoThe thing is that there is a lot of variation in ink composition, so it's hard to say universally. That being said, fungi tend to sequester heavy metals in their mycelium, see https://krishisanskriti.org/vol_image/03Jul201502072615.pdf https://krishisanskriti.org/vol_image/03Jul201502072615.pdf
- dexwiz 2y agoBut if you just compost the fungi, you are just back to where you started. With phytoextraction you have to incinerate the plant material afterwards. I know fungi aren’t plants, but similar principle.
- CuriouslyC 2y agoYou can harvest the mushrooms and throw them away.
- dexwiz 2y agoThe fruiting body of a mushroom often represents only a fraction of total biomass. It depends on the species, but what we see above ground is more analogous to a flower than an entire plant.
- the_gastropod 2y agoAs far as I understand, most commercially-used inks these days are soy-based, so shouldn’t pose an issue.
- davexunit 2y agoYup! The general rule for sheet mulching is: no glossy print.
- addled 2y agoI know a lot of people have praised cardboard and I've used it too, but after sniffing some particularly smudged boxes from an Amazon order, I'm pretty hesitant now. I'm less nervous about things like pizza boxes (if not too greasy). Even if there are contaminants, they are already in my food.
- fy20 2y agoI just use 'plain' cardboard in my garden - the brown stuff with text printed in one colour. It's pretty easy to get hold of from supermarkets. The multicolour stuff I send for recycling.
- ornornor 2y agoAren’t pizza boxes lines with PFAS or some other kind of forever chemicals which is why they can’t be recycled?
- cricalix 2y agoThe ones in Ireland are basic cardboard. You can tell from the way the grease soaks through and the cardboard goes all limp. The constraint for recycling them here is that the items up for recycling must be "clean and dry", and a pizza box is neither after it has been delivered with pizza in it.
- laborcontract 2y agoComposting is one of the most unexpectedly satisfying things to do. Don’t even need to throw food in it (vermin bait). Just cut greens and carbon. As a bonus you can pee on it. You can also go to Starbucks and ask for their used coffee grounds, which they’ll happily prepare for you. Couple weeks and you have earthworms everywhere. Several more weeks and all those damn boxes from Amazon are nowhere to be found. The bonus is that you start to go down a regenerative rabbit hole that’ll turn you into a mycorrhizal fungi maximalist.
- CuriouslyC 2y agoYou can throw food in covered worm bins, or you can bury the food in your compost pile and have a farm cat that likes to sleep near the bin. Both work pretty well.
- laborcontract 2y agoNot worth the risk, imo. The second order headache from that is having neighbors complain about your pile. I think the best way to handle foods is to let it ferment Bokashi style, and then dump everything into the compost. It speeds up the decomposition without attracting rats. I also like to make weed tea with some EM, molasses, and water and dump that into the compost after a couple weeks. It’s not beautiful, but it’s how the heap loves it. My god, it’s all so satisfying. I once started a pile on top of a 3 ft stash of brush that was being an eyesore for three years, seeded with a heap of ugly smelly weeds and some earthworms. I only composted over a third of the brush to A/B test the results and within 8 months you could see a bald spot where the brush dissolved under the compost.
- jondwillis 2y agoYou’re doing something wrong if your worm bin or compost pile starts to smell enough for your neighbors to notice. (namely, you probably need more carbon to cover it with for the amount of stanky material that is present, or it is anaerobic, or too wet, or too dry.) I live in a duplex with a backyard and have 100s of gallons of worm bin that don’t bother anyone’s noses.
- xnx 2y agoGiven that any number of chemicals could be in urban soil, I would only ever container garden.
- appplication 2y agoEven “organic” soil that you might use to fill containers is full of crap. I’ve filled beds with this from several brands and all of them had a significant amount of pieces that were clearly previously painted wood, chunks of metal, etc. Probably still better than what’s in the ground. I recall seeing beautiful black, organic rich, loose soil when planting things 25/30 years ago. I haven’t found anything remotely resembling that here in CA in the last few years.
- jondwillis 2y agoMy solution to this was to start with store bought organic soil and start to amend it with compost. I have built more and more soil over time, and now I have so many red wiggler worms that I generate a significant amount of compost and castings.
- dylan604 2y ago> is full of crap crap crap, or good crap. cow manure and rabbit droppings are amazing crap to add to. your soils.
- idontknowtech 2y agoI'm all for gardening - there's something therapeutic about seeing a plant grow and evolve over time. You can see something tangibly change over time as a result of your work, something quite rare in today's world where we spend our time on computers producing ephemeral things like files. That said, I'm completely opposed to urban food gardening (including chickens) because the land you're growing in is likely poisoned by years of urban pollution. Whatever you grow in those areas is going to bring that bad stuff along with it, which means your backyard tomatoes probably wouldn't pass FDA approval. Chickens are even worse, because they'll eat whatever's on the ground and that stuff gets into the eggs. So while it looks great on Instagram, your backyard eggs are probably full of rubber, asphalt, gasoline, plastics, and all the other stuff that's wafted into your property over the years. So anyway, by all means garden and have fun doing it, but if you haven't had your urban soil tested and verified as safe, don't eat anything that comes out of it.
- hosh 2y agoThat depends on the area and there are methods to mitigate that. One group out in New Jersey that has a community garden in heavily polluted land uses clean straw bales as the grow medium. Those only last for two or three years. But you can grow stuff. Regenerative and permaculture methods includes soil remediation techniques for rebuilding soil. For heavily polluted land, Dr John Todd has some remarkable methods that can remediate even places such as superfund sites, though that might not be something to DIY. Dr Todd also has a quick method for testing that doesn’t involve a lab; not comprehensive, but will get you the observation you need. Finally, as you see from other articles including the current front page of HN — leafy veggies have been found to have tire additives. Micro plastics are found in rain amd in animals in the wild. Our planet has been so broadly polluted, and our industrial agriculture will not necessarily be safer. For those with an interest in stewardship, you have to start somewhere.
- anamexis 2y agoI'm not doubting you, but do you know of any concrete analyses of contamination in vegetables and eggs?
- 2y ago
- jadbox 2y agoCareful, its important to avoid newspapers with colored inks, glossy finishes, or any coated papers, as these can contain harmful chemicals that might leach into the soil.
- swayvil 2y ago> No-till (or no-dig) gardening. Step 1. Aerate using a broadfork. Such good exercise hmmm
- yareal 2y agoMechanically, tiling and aeration are wildly different operations. What's your "hmmmm" all about?
- swayvil 2y agoAvoidance of labor was the point.
- dylan604 2y agoYeah, I don't get the no till. The soils in my area are so compact that your % of successful seed germination will be much lower without that effort. I have a small plot that I manually till up a couple of inches deep each season and then mix in the compost I've been making all year. My germination success rate is much much higher that way
- yareal 2y agoThe point is to build, over years, the kind of soil that fosters germination. You can mix in additives every year and till, or you can build a small ecosystem over time. Maximizing the ecosystem health of what's underneath the surface is the point.
- yipbub 2y agoSeems like tilling might be counterproductive long-term then: > Tilling and plowing are almost synonymous with land cultivation, aren't they? Yet they actually destroy soil structure, create compaction, and kill the very soil biology that's the basis of fertility, like fungal networks and all those earthworms that make the soil nice and squishy. https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/tillage_practices_have_a_direct_correlation_to_soil_health https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/tillage_practices_have_a_direc... > According to the Michigan State University Extension, compaction is also a common side effect of tillage – at the soil surface, the plow layer and the subsoil.
- grondilu 2y ago> improved soil health, improved ecosystem health, better water retention, less erosion, more carbon sequestered in the soil. Regarding carbon sequestration, I think it is worth pointing out that Freeman Dyson, in one of his conferences, mentioned no-till farming as one land management methods that could be used to absorb the carbon emitted in the atmosphere by human activities. "The point of this calculation is the very favorable rate of exchange between carbon in the atmosphere and carbon in the soil. To stop the carbon in the atmosphere from increasing, we only need to grow the biomass in the soil by a hundredth of an inch per year. Good topsoil contains about ten percent biomass, [Schlesinger, 1977], so a hundredth of an inch of biomass growth means about a tenth of an inch of topsoil. Changes in farming practices such as no-till farming, avoiding the use of the plow, cause biomass to grow at least as fast as this. If we plant crops without plowing the soil, more of the biomass goes into roots which stay in the soil, and less returns to the atmosphere. If we use genetic engineering to put more biomass into roots, we can probably achieve much more rapid growth of topsoil. I conclude from this calculation that the problem of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is a problem of land management, not a problem of meteorology. No computer model of atmosphere and ocean can hope to predict the way we shall manage our land." https://www.edge.org/conversation/freeman_dyson-heretical-thoughts-about-science-and-society https://www.edge.org/conversation/freeman_dyson-heretical-th...
- houseplant 2y agoengineering wise I can't see why it wouldn't be possible to selectively genetic-engineer some kind of plant or algae or something that sucks up tons and tons of carbon that you can then sequester manually by compressing it into, I don't know, artificial peat or something. I have no idea why massive factory growing operations for produce aren't everywhere. Every city should have one by now, growing produce locally and shaving down the price of transport and waste to almost nothing.
- shawn-butler 2y agoInvestigate the biochar process as an alternative. You can also buy biochar for your houseplant needs [0]. Creating that much artifical peat in a small area would be a massive fire hazard but probably could be managed. "Vertical" or indoor farming is one of those silicon valley tropes. VC lost billions during the last decade and I don't know of a single success story that is still going / profitable. I'm sure after enough time passes people forget and will try again. [0]: https://rosysoil.com/ https://rosysoil.com/
- sgt101 2y agoDoing everything at once is a big mistake. Gardens need infrastructure and they need time to evolve into a system that works and is productive. Start by building compost bins. Use your mower (if you have a rotary one that bags) to mince up clippings from woodie plants (not actual bits of wood as that will kill the mower) and obviously to collect grass clippings. Start composting this down. Obtain a bag of good live compost or muck full of worms (you can see them) and use that to dope and infect your heap, loads of worm eggs will be in the muck and as the compost gets going the worm population will get going too. Start your veg patch small and simple. If you have the space eight 3m * 1.2 m beds will be a big challenge to look after at first, but will provide more opportunities to grow things than you will be able to take advantage of (effectively). Remember, growing veg isn't just about preparing the soil, throwing seed on and waiting. You will need to fence and net against pests. Pigeons will eat all brassicas in short order. Rabbits will eat most stuff, mice and rats as well. Good plants to get going with in the UK are: courgettes and other squashes (pumpkins need lots of room but can be a fun hobby plant), beans (broad, french and runners), peas, potatoes (blight is... a blight), celeriac and cellery, lettuce, broccoli (Calabrese), kale, beetroot, chard, carrots, corn, cabbage. You must net cabbage, broccoli and kale. You will also need to feed - organic seaweed feeds are good for this. Most importantly remember plants grow because of light and water and constant protection and pest management. Once you are going and learn about the plants then get a green house and expand. The green house and cold frames are essential to get seedlings going - this is when you can move from paying more to grow than it costs to buy to saving money. You can also grow veg that only thrives under glass in a cooler climate. But, be warned.. commercial farmers are very clever and very efficient. You will always struggle to compete with them on a value basis. But it is very satisfying and the food often tastes better than shop bought.
- nothercastle 2y agoYou will not be price competitive with commercial plain and simple. You need chemicals volume , machinery and free water. Grass clippings are great but you will need to weed like crazy. Homemade compost is really hard
- pavel_lishin 2y ago
- cassepipe 2y agoA colleague of mine recently introduced to the idea of no-till gardening/agriculture and was very convincing about it but I started to have some doubts when he started claiming incredible yields yadi yada, too good to be true was my reaction. I am thinking here must be the perfect place to get interesting opinions about it : So, is no-till useless, good or incredible ?
- freeopinion 2y agoI once planted a few spinach plants. When they matured, I would go out almost every night and cut enough for a side dish for family dinner. I didn't rate it good or incredible. I was surprised how well it kept growing back. I didn't bother doing a cost analysis, either. If your goal is economics, it's dubious. If your goal is pleasure, it's subjective. If your goal is lifestyle, it's incredible at facilitating a particular lifestyle. Give it a small try and decide for yourself. Start as small as one square meter as an experiment. You have very little to lose.
- fuzztester 2y agoRelated: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-dig_gardening https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-dig_gardening People were practicing it from years ago. E.g.: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masanobu_Fukuoka https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masanobu_Fukuoka https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Stout https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Stout Both Masanobu and Ruth are mentioned in the first link above, too.
- batch12 2y agoI prefer mulched raised beds. They're easier to maintain for me and I get good results. I build them out of cedar fence slats to keep the cost down and start the first year with a Hügelkultur-inspired base. The mulching keeps weeds down (they're already low anyway) and helps retain moisture.