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> [Human or automated review] [a]ccess is needed for Adobe applications and services to perform the functions they are designed and used for (such as opening an

> [Human or automated review] [a]ccess is needed for Adobe applications and services to perform the functions they are designed and used for (such as opening and editing files for the user or creating thumbnails or a preview for sharing). You dummies, it's needed! They have to access our data, it's needed! N.b. this is one of the worse examples of corporate writing I've seen in recent memory. I feel like this entire thing is gaslighting the reader and using corpo jargon to make the thing easier to swallow.

jf22 2y ago
Can you describe how Adobe would generate a thumbnail preview without accessing your content?
- hnbad 2y ago
  Well, considering how GitHub's ToS was defended as "but they need it to host your code" and was what ended up as their justification for feeding all of your code into Copilot, I don't think that argument aged well. They could specify a minimal set of permissions they need from you to offer their service but they deliberately worded it as ambiguously as possible to allow them to change their mind later. The question isn't what they need it for, the question is what they can justify later with the language they use now.
  - jf22 2y ago
    I didn't make an argument. I was just pointing out even creating a thumbnail requires accessing your data.
- HWR_14 2y ago
  Locally, on my machine.
- lelandfe 2y ago
  The corpo jargon has gotten to you! "Access" doesn't mean "the app accesses a file on your computer." It means the company has access to your data. You would be forgiven for thinking this, as I assume it was their intent that you be confused. The phrase refers to 2.2 "Our Access to Your Content" - https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html Anyway, I have utmost faith that an app can open and edit files without calling home.
  - jf22 2y ago
    I'd disagree and say the ToS is written broadly enough that opening a file on your computer is covered.
    - lelandfe 2y ago
      I... yes? I'm sure their ToS covers opening a file. That page is not talking about filesystem access, however.
      - jf22 2y ago
        I left a comment in response to a person mocking a use case regarding thumbnail creation, not the content in the page.
- tsukikage 2y ago
  Can you explain how showing my content to a human employed by an Adobe subsidiary helps with thumbnail preview generation?
- ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
  The quote is, > Access is needed for Adobe applications and services to perform the functions they are designed and used for. ...which boils down to, 'we need access to your stuff to do what we want'... which is not very reassuring. The thumbnail example was just 1 example. Another example would be an adobe service designed for training AI on your content. As long as the service designed for training AI on your content only accesses and uses your data for training AI on your content, it would be in compliance with these terms.
lelandfe 2y ago
Self-replying since the sibling is getting buried. What they say: > Access is needed for Adobe applications and services to perform the functions they are designed and used for (such as opening and editing files for the user or creating thumbnails or a preview for sharing). What you read: > A tautology: in order to open a file on your computer for use in an Adobe app, that app will need to open a file ("access") on your computer. What they actually mean: > Adobe can review ("access") any data you put into their apps and services. For instance, if you open a file in Photoshop, Adobe can have a human or an automated process review that file. This behavior is needed. A huge part of this is the awful business-y passive tone they are using to disguise intent: "access is needed" - access by whom, and to what? Needed why?
- ryandrake 2y ago
  I think one of the fundamental problems here is that the line has become blurred between "Company can access user's data" and "Company's application can access user's data." In the past, this was pretty clear. The application is running on my computer, unconnected to the outside world, running on my behalf, in order to do what I want it to do. When I ran Borland's C++ compiler on DOS, I would have never even considered "Borland" having access to my data. These days, with every device connected to the Internet, companies are deliberately blurring the line between the application and the company that made it. If my iPhone accesses my location, is Apple accessing my location? Who knows? Some people think no, some people think yes. If my Windows PC takes a screenshot of my desktop, is Microsoft accessing the contents of my desktop? No clue. They say they aren't, but all they can offer for proof is "Trust me, bro." I'm so tired of software that is so hopelessly intertwined and tethered to the software's vendor. When I buy a software from someone, I buy it in order to use it, by itself, with no "help" from the vendor. I don't want a relationship with my software vendor. I just want to use the software alone.

jf22 2y ago

Can you describe how Adobe would generate a thumbnail preview without accessing your content?

hnbad 2y ago
Well, considering how GitHub's ToS was defended as "but they need it to host your code" and was what ended up as their justification for feeding all of your code into Copilot, I don't think that argument aged well. They could specify a minimal set of permissions they need from you to offer their service but they deliberately worded it as ambiguously as possible to allow them to change their mind later. The question isn't what they need it for, the question is what they can justify later with the language they use now.
- jf22 2y ago
  I didn't make an argument. I was just pointing out even creating a thumbnail requires accessing your data.
HWR_14 2y ago
Locally, on my machine.
lelandfe 2y ago
The corpo jargon has gotten to you! "Access" doesn't mean "the app accesses a file on your computer." It means the company has access to your data. You would be forgiven for thinking this, as I assume it was their intent that you be confused. The phrase refers to 2.2 "Our Access to Your Content" - https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html Anyway, I have utmost faith that an app can open and edit files without calling home.
- jf22 2y ago
  I'd disagree and say the ToS is written broadly enough that opening a file on your computer is covered.
  - lelandfe 2y ago
    I... yes? I'm sure their ToS covers opening a file. That page is not talking about filesystem access, however.
    - jf22 2y ago
      I left a comment in response to a person mocking a use case regarding thumbnail creation, not the content in the page.
tsukikage 2y ago
Can you explain how showing my content to a human employed by an Adobe subsidiary helps with thumbnail preview generation?
ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
The quote is, > Access is needed for Adobe applications and services to perform the functions they are designed and used for. ...which boils down to, 'we need access to your stuff to do what we want'... which is not very reassuring. The thumbnail example was just 1 example. Another example would be an adobe service designed for training AI on your content. As long as the service designed for training AI on your content only accesses and uses your data for training AI on your content, it would be in compliance with these terms.

lelandfe 2y ago

Self-replying since the sibling is getting buried. What they say: > Access is needed for Adobe applications and services to perform the functions they are designed and used for (such as opening and editing files for the user or creating thumbnails or a preview for sharing). What you read: > A tautology: in order to open a file on your computer for use in an Adobe app, that app will need to open a file ("access") on your computer. What they actually mean: > Adobe can review ("access") any data you put into their apps and services. For instance, if you open a file in Photoshop, Adobe can have a human or an automated process review that file. This behavior is needed. A huge part of this is the awful business-y passive tone they are using to disguise intent: "access is needed" - access by whom, and to what? Needed why?

ryandrake 2y ago
I think one of the fundamental problems here is that the line has become blurred between "Company can access user's data" and "Company's application can access user's data." In the past, this was pretty clear. The application is running on my computer, unconnected to the outside world, running on my behalf, in order to do what I want it to do. When I ran Borland's C++ compiler on DOS, I would have never even considered "Borland" having access to my data. These days, with every device connected to the Internet, companies are deliberately blurring the line between the application and the company that made it. If my iPhone accesses my location, is Apple accessing my location? Who knows? Some people think no, some people think yes. If my Windows PC takes a screenshot of my desktop, is Microsoft accessing the contents of my desktop? No clue. They say they aren't, but all they can offer for proof is "Trust me, bro." I'm so tired of software that is so hopelessly intertwined and tethered to the software's vendor. When I buy a software from someone, I buy it in order to use it, by itself, with no "help" from the vendor. I don't want a relationship with my software vendor. I just want to use the software alone.