4 ms·

In California, you need social security (number only, not card), only if you are eligible for one, or has one. If you are on a non immigrant non work visa, and

In California, you need social security (number only, not card), only if you are eligible for one, or has one. If you are on a non immigrant non work visa, and thus are not eligible to work/ssn, you still can get REAL ID. Not every REAL ID holder is a citizen & thus eligible to vote. Real ID needs only proof of legal status (citizen, permanent resident, tourist, work permit, study vis etc) and address.

Spooky23 2y ago
Thank you for clarifying a corner case. A US citizen requires proof of SSN, either a social security card or W2. This is a heavy burden for many people.
- vetinari 2y ago
  Why it is a heavy burden for a citizen? (I'm not an US citizen, but even I have SSN).
  - kelnos 2y ago
    Proof of SSN might be difficult for some people. I know lots of people who have lost their Social Security Card, or at least have no idea where it is. (Regardless, the GP is incorrect; proof of SSN is not a REAL ID requirement, at least not in every state. If a state requires proof of SSN, they're going above and beyond what the feds require.)
    - sureIy 2y ago
      This stuff is ridiculous to me. Unless you are an unlawful immigrant from a war-torn country, you certainly are registered somewhere that can prove your identity. If I lose every single ID and show up at my birth town city hall with my full name and birth date, I am certain they will be able to identify me and produce a valid document via cross checks. Why is it so hard for Americans to have an ID?
      - Spooky23 2y ago
        Yes, it is ridiculous. I’ve done alot of work in this space. The issue is that it’s a rare issue where left and right wing extremists agree that they don’t like ID. Also, vital records are decentralized - 12,000 entities issue birth certificates with varying standards of competence. States like New York have centralized, well maintained registries. Other places adopt a hold my beer approach. On the right: Religious fanatics think it’s the mark of the beast. Anti-tax types worry that it will make it harder to evade taxes through shell companies and other entities. Libertarians think it’s a gateway for more intrusive regulation and loss of freedom. On the left: Advocates believe that the administrative burden and difficulty of getting documentation will marginalize the elderly, poor, children with complex family dynamics and the homeless. Voting rights advocates are worried about voter id laws and regulations that disenfranchise voters who are transient, have difficulty getting or maintaining the ID, etc. Things that are trivial for middle class folks are often very challenging for people outside of that norm. Think about how difficult it would be to exist as a traveller in NYC without a smartphone. One of the great challenges of government service delivery is to move the needle without marginalizing thousands of people.
    - Spooky23 2y ago
      Verification is a requirement. Some states, like California, electronically validate. Other states, for example Alabama, do paper verification which involves collecting identity proofs and either a social security card or a W2.
  - davchana 2y ago
    OP is wrong. Only the number is required, not proof. OP was right in 2018.
- kelnos 2y ago
  > A US citizen requires proof of SSN, either a social security card or W2 That is incorrect. For example, see California's REAL ID checklist[0]. I got my REAL ID in CA by presenting my birth certificate and two forms of address verification. It's possible that some states require proof of SSN, but that does not appear to be an absolute requirement for the feds to sign off on the state's process. [0] https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-licenses-identification-cards/real-id/real-id-checklist/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-licenses-identification...
- davchana 2y ago
  You are welcome. This is not a corner case (SSN required, not card). I would say its more like 90%. Since 2021 nobody needs proof of SSN, they just need the SSN number itself. To quote CA DMV website: > Applying for a REAL ID requires proof of identity, proof of California residency, and a trip to DMV. You will be asked to provide your Social Security number on your REAL ID application (exceptions may apply). https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-licenses-identification-cards/real-id/what-is-real-id/#:~:text=Applying%20for%20a%20REAL%20ID,application%20(exceptions%20may%20apply) https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-licenses-identification....
- rootusrootus 2y ago
  I just got a RealID myself a couple weeks ago. I did not have to prove anything about my SSN. I gave them a copy of my birth certificate, my old driver's license, and a piece of mail delivered to me at my home address. That's all. The only thing on that list that takes any effort to get is the birth certificate. And everyone really ought to keep a copy of their own anyway. Even before RealID we used birth certificates for ID at the DMV, so it is not a new requirement (for Oregon at least).

Spooky23 2y ago

Thank you for clarifying a corner case. A US citizen requires proof of SSN, either a social security card or W2. This is a heavy burden for many people.

vetinari 2y ago
Why it is a heavy burden for a citizen? (I'm not an US citizen, but even I have SSN).
- kelnos 2y ago
  Proof of SSN might be difficult for some people. I know lots of people who have lost their Social Security Card, or at least have no idea where it is. (Regardless, the GP is incorrect; proof of SSN is not a REAL ID requirement, at least not in every state. If a state requires proof of SSN, they're going above and beyond what the feds require.)
  - sureIy 2y ago
    This stuff is ridiculous to me. Unless you are an unlawful immigrant from a war-torn country, you certainly are registered somewhere that can prove your identity. If I lose every single ID and show up at my birth town city hall with my full name and birth date, I am certain they will be able to identify me and produce a valid document via cross checks. Why is it so hard for Americans to have an ID?
    - Spooky23 2y ago
      Yes, it is ridiculous. I’ve done alot of work in this space. The issue is that it’s a rare issue where left and right wing extremists agree that they don’t like ID. Also, vital records are decentralized - 12,000 entities issue birth certificates with varying standards of competence. States like New York have centralized, well maintained registries. Other places adopt a hold my beer approach. On the right: Religious fanatics think it’s the mark of the beast. Anti-tax types worry that it will make it harder to evade taxes through shell companies and other entities. Libertarians think it’s a gateway for more intrusive regulation and loss of freedom. On the left: Advocates believe that the administrative burden and difficulty of getting documentation will marginalize the elderly, poor, children with complex family dynamics and the homeless. Voting rights advocates are worried about voter id laws and regulations that disenfranchise voters who are transient, have difficulty getting or maintaining the ID, etc. Things that are trivial for middle class folks are often very challenging for people outside of that norm. Think about how difficult it would be to exist as a traveller in NYC without a smartphone. One of the great challenges of government service delivery is to move the needle without marginalizing thousands of people.
  - Spooky23 2y ago
    Verification is a requirement. Some states, like California, electronically validate. Other states, for example Alabama, do paper verification which involves collecting identity proofs and either a social security card or a W2.
- davchana 2y ago
  OP is wrong. Only the number is required, not proof. OP was right in 2018.
kelnos 2y ago
> A US citizen requires proof of SSN, either a social security card or W2 That is incorrect. For example, see California's REAL ID checklist[0]. I got my REAL ID in CA by presenting my birth certificate and two forms of address verification. It's possible that some states require proof of SSN, but that does not appear to be an absolute requirement for the feds to sign off on the state's process. [0] https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-licenses-identification-cards/real-id/real-id-checklist/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-licenses-identification...
davchana 2y ago
You are welcome. This is not a corner case (SSN required, not card). I would say its more like 90%. Since 2021 nobody needs proof of SSN, they just need the SSN number itself. To quote CA DMV website: > Applying for a REAL ID requires proof of identity, proof of California residency, and a trip to DMV. You will be asked to provide your Social Security number on your REAL ID application (exceptions may apply). https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-licenses-identification-cards/real-id/what-is-real-id/#:~:text=Applying%20for%20a%20REAL%20ID,application%20(exceptions%20may%20apply) https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-licenses-identification....
rootusrootus 2y ago
I just got a RealID myself a couple weeks ago. I did not have to prove anything about my SSN. I gave them a copy of my birth certificate, my old driver's license, and a piece of mail delivered to me at my home address. That's all. The only thing on that list that takes any effort to get is the birth certificate. And everyone really ought to keep a copy of their own anyway. Even before RealID we used birth certificates for ID at the DMV, so it is not a new requirement (for Oregon at least).