8 ms·

At least they won’t open up to mass immigration to replace the native population - something being looked at as a solution in the West. https://www.un.org/deve

At least they won’t open up to mass immigration to replace the native population - something being looked at as a solution in the West. https://www.un.org/development/desa/pd/sites/www.un.org.development.desa.pd/files/unpd-egm_200010_un_2001_replacementmigration.pdf https://www.un.org/development/desa/pd/sites/www.un.org.deve...

pupppet 2y ago
That’s not replacing the native population, it’s replacing the births that never took place.
- marcusverus 2y ago
  The Mexicans who lived in Texas in the early 19th century saw a relentless stream of Anglo settlers from the USA and beyond. Within a couple of decades, Texas demographics changed radically, and society changed along with it. The previous (Mexican) inhabitants' children went on to grow up in a society with a radically different culture with a different language. Imagine a Mexican child coming home from a visit to a white-majority, English-language town. Imagine them complaining about the feeling of otherness in their own country, and asking their parents why they allowed themselves to be replaced by the Anglos. Imagine their parent bending over, looking that child in the eye, and saying: "ackshually, they didn't "replace" us, chico. They merely replaced births that never took place."
  - pupppet 2y ago
    The need to preserve culture goes out the window when there's no young person to change your bed pan.
    - ffsm8 2y ago
      Considering that Japan and Korea do just fine is proof that youre arguing with a straw man. Same with European nations that didn't just invite everyone and their grandma to immigrate such as Switzerland. The technological advances / robots will outpace the need for immigration, and has for the last decades too. Its just profitable for the capital as immigrants are a source of cheap labor which can be used to surpress wages.
      - yongjik 2y ago
        > Considering that Japan and Korea do just fine is proof that youre arguing with a straw man. Not sure about Japan, but anybody who thinks Korea is doing "just fine" has not been following Korean news. Daycares are closing left and right because there aren't enough kids. Now it's moving up to secondary schools. Soon it will be cafes and restaurants as there aren't enough customers. Then the whole economy will crumble down. Technology doesn't help when there aren't enough people buying your product and services.
        ffsm8 2y ago
        You're projecting current developments into the future, ignoring that things change on the way there. If your expectation is that everything has to stay the same: then yes, alarm bells should be going of. For 40+ years already considering pollution, climate change etc. But labor has gotten less important with every step since the industrial revolution, objectively speaking the shrinking nations will have a lot less issues medium/long term then the ones "restocking" via immigration
      - RestlessMind 2y ago
        > Considering that Japan and Korea do just fine Citation needed. If they were doing "just fine", then this wouldn't have happened (from TFA): Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshimasa Hayashi told reporters that it's "a critical situation.” The next six years, until the 2030s, will be “the last chance for us to possibly reverse the trend,” he said. > The technological advances / robots will outpace the need for immigration I will believe it when I see it. Or to refer to GP's point - where is the robot that will change bed pan?
        ffsm8 2y ago
        You might notice that these quotes talk about the future. That's literally the point. They see a development and realize that they'll have a problem if the status quo is kept the same. It won't, which is why the actual issue mostly fails to realize as projected.
    - marcusverus 2y ago
      You'd obliterate your culture and deprive your children of an ethnic homeland... just to avoid making prudent updates to the welfare state? The distain you people have for culture would make a Conoco executive blush.
      - RestlessMind 2y ago
        > just to avoid making prudent updates to the welfare state? Japan's population pyramid in 1980: https://www.populationpyramid.net/japan/1980/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/japan/1980/ In 2024: https://www.populationpyramid.net/japan/2022/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/japan/2022/ When the ratio of "workers" / "dependents" shrink dramatically as those 2 graphs attest, we cannot have "prudent" updates. There will either be "painful" updates, or need to sacrifice something else (like getting immigrants).
        marcusverus 2y ago
        No cut is so painful as to make cultural suicide a preferable alternative. BTW, needing more workers doesn't necessitate immigration--it necessitates more workers. Why do you guys always jump straight to permanent immigration? What's wrong with a temporary work visa?
- xeornet 2y ago
  They are one and the same. Maybe constant population growth should not be our blind goal. It leads to cultures with higher birth rates taking over.

pupppet 2y ago

That’s not replacing the native population, it’s replacing the births that never took place.

marcusverus 2y ago
The Mexicans who lived in Texas in the early 19th century saw a relentless stream of Anglo settlers from the USA and beyond. Within a couple of decades, Texas demographics changed radically, and society changed along with it. The previous (Mexican) inhabitants' children went on to grow up in a society with a radically different culture with a different language. Imagine a Mexican child coming home from a visit to a white-majority, English-language town. Imagine them complaining about the feeling of otherness in their own country, and asking their parents why they allowed themselves to be replaced by the Anglos. Imagine their parent bending over, looking that child in the eye, and saying: "ackshually, they didn't "replace" us, chico. They merely replaced births that never took place."
- pupppet 2y ago
  The need to preserve culture goes out the window when there's no young person to change your bed pan.
  - ffsm8 2y ago
    Considering that Japan and Korea do just fine is proof that youre arguing with a straw man. Same with European nations that didn't just invite everyone and their grandma to immigrate such as Switzerland. The technological advances / robots will outpace the need for immigration, and has for the last decades too. Its just profitable for the capital as immigrants are a source of cheap labor which can be used to surpress wages.
    - yongjik 2y ago
      > Considering that Japan and Korea do just fine is proof that youre arguing with a straw man. Not sure about Japan, but anybody who thinks Korea is doing "just fine" has not been following Korean news. Daycares are closing left and right because there aren't enough kids. Now it's moving up to secondary schools. Soon it will be cafes and restaurants as there aren't enough customers. Then the whole economy will crumble down. Technology doesn't help when there aren't enough people buying your product and services.
      - ffsm8 2y ago
        You're projecting current developments into the future, ignoring that things change on the way there. If your expectation is that everything has to stay the same: then yes, alarm bells should be going of. For 40+ years already considering pollution, climate change etc. But labor has gotten less important with every step since the industrial revolution, objectively speaking the shrinking nations will have a lot less issues medium/long term then the ones "restocking" via immigration
    - RestlessMind 2y ago
      > Considering that Japan and Korea do just fine Citation needed. If they were doing "just fine", then this wouldn't have happened (from TFA): Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshimasa Hayashi told reporters that it's "a critical situation.” The next six years, until the 2030s, will be “the last chance for us to possibly reverse the trend,” he said. > The technological advances / robots will outpace the need for immigration I will believe it when I see it. Or to refer to GP's point - where is the robot that will change bed pan?
      - ffsm8 2y ago
        You might notice that these quotes talk about the future. That's literally the point. They see a development and realize that they'll have a problem if the status quo is kept the same. It won't, which is why the actual issue mostly fails to realize as projected.
  - marcusverus 2y ago
    You'd obliterate your culture and deprive your children of an ethnic homeland... just to avoid making prudent updates to the welfare state? The distain you people have for culture would make a Conoco executive blush.
    - RestlessMind 2y ago
      > just to avoid making prudent updates to the welfare state? Japan's population pyramid in 1980: https://www.populationpyramid.net/japan/1980/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/japan/1980/ In 2024: https://www.populationpyramid.net/japan/2022/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/japan/2022/ When the ratio of "workers" / "dependents" shrink dramatically as those 2 graphs attest, we cannot have "prudent" updates. There will either be "painful" updates, or need to sacrifice something else (like getting immigrants).
      - marcusverus 2y ago
        No cut is so painful as to make cultural suicide a preferable alternative. BTW, needing more workers doesn't necessitate immigration--it necessitates more workers. Why do you guys always jump straight to permanent immigration? What's wrong with a temporary work visa?
xeornet 2y ago
They are one and the same. Maybe constant population growth should not be our blind goal. It leads to cultures with higher birth rates taking over.