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For years folks have been vocalizing fears that Toyota is behind on the EV transition ... but it turns out they made this decision intentionally and it is payin

For years folks have been vocalizing fears that Toyota is behind on the EV transition ... but it turns out they made this decision intentionally and it is paying off. EV is overhyped and underdeveloped, and hybrids are all around better. Same could likely be said for Apple. They might be just where they want to be.

GaggiX 2y ago
What's the hydrid in this case? Also isn't Apple going big on AI next week?
- whalesalad 2y ago
  I just wouldn't be surprised to see Apple react as Apple tends to do - slow and steady. They are not bandwagoners like everyone else who go 100% in the direction of the new shiny hotness as soon as it appears. That is what we are seeing everywhere else - and I think a lot of the integrations and candy we're seeing layered on top with LLM's is just noise and novelty. tl;dr just because everyone is running in the same direction doesn't mean it is the correct direction.
- threeseed 2y ago
  The hybrid case is that AI is a side player not the main attraction. For example it's expected there will be better text summarisation in the existing Notes app rather than replacing it entirely with some LLM chat bot centric UI.
kenjackson 2y ago
> EV is overhyped and underdeveloped, and hybrids are all around better. I thought EVs were on track to outsell hybrids this coming year for the first time.
LeoPanthera 2y ago
> EV is overhyped and underdeveloped, and hybrids are all around better. Gosh. This is an enormous claim that's going to need more than a simple citation. On the surface it seems very obviously wrong, and sounds more like propaganda.
- Alupis 2y ago
  Just think about it. We've had hybrids pushing 50-60+ MPG's for what, over two decades now? Imagine where we'd be if the entire industry leaned into that tech... Instead we pursued an entirely unproven technology that required (and still requires) ridiculous infrastructure investment (charging network, energy grid improvements, chargers at home, etc) and isn't as green as people might want depending where you live in the world (externalities of power production). Electric is still not ready to replace all vehicles, and may never be - nor is it going to be willingly mass adopted anytime soon. The drawbacks, which proponents like to handwave away, are severe and real. Over the past couple decades we could have gradually improved MPG's on hybrids to astonishing (and impactful) levels. The crowd that fawned over Musk and his fantasies (the same crowd that now vehemently hates him, cuz politics...) would not accept hybrids or anything short of full electric vehicles. Well, you all were fooled... and here we are with the average real-world 2023 vehicle fuel economy still less than 30 MPG's...
  - ekiourk 2y ago
    I think you are fooled and you don't know what you are talking about
    - Alupis 2y ago
      Care to fill us in?
  - LeoPanthera 2y ago
    I wasn't "fooled", and this is vaguely insulting. My unwillingness to burn dinosaur juice is reason enough for me to believe that hybrids are not "better" than BEVs, but BEVs are also (a lot) more efficient per watt, they require less maintenance, the running costs are lower, the performance is better, and in the long run, they're more future proof. In fact it's hard to think of any reason why a hybrid would better except for "there are gas stations everywhere", but this reason is temporary at best, and ignores the fact that I can "fill" my EV at home, so I always leave the house with a full "tank". It's very rare that I have to visit a public charger. And hey, even when I do, my hands don't stink of gasoline anymore.
loud_cloud 2y ago
Terrible take.
kolinko 2y ago
Dodn’t their president just leave because he missed with their approach to EVs?
recursive 2y ago
No one doubts they made the decision intentionally. I think we still haven't seen whether it was a good call or not.
- dylan604 2y ago
  It's not like they are ignoring it. They are building custom chips with cores dedicated to the task.
luhn 2y ago
Toyota is behind the EV curve because they focused their R&D on hydrogen vehicles. They didn't make an EV vs hybrid bet, they made an EV vs hydrogen bet and it's not paying off.

GaggiX 2y ago

What's the hydrid in this case? Also isn't Apple going big on AI next week?

whalesalad 2y ago
I just wouldn't be surprised to see Apple react as Apple tends to do - slow and steady. They are not bandwagoners like everyone else who go 100% in the direction of the new shiny hotness as soon as it appears. That is what we are seeing everywhere else - and I think a lot of the integrations and candy we're seeing layered on top with LLM's is just noise and novelty. tl;dr just because everyone is running in the same direction doesn't mean it is the correct direction.
threeseed 2y ago
The hybrid case is that AI is a side player not the main attraction. For example it's expected there will be better text summarisation in the existing Notes app rather than replacing it entirely with some LLM chat bot centric UI.

kenjackson 2y ago

> EV is overhyped and underdeveloped, and hybrids are all around better. I thought EVs were on track to outsell hybrids this coming year for the first time.

LeoPanthera 2y ago

> EV is overhyped and underdeveloped, and hybrids are all around better. Gosh. This is an enormous claim that's going to need more than a simple citation. On the surface it seems very obviously wrong, and sounds more like propaganda.

Alupis 2y ago
Just think about it. We've had hybrids pushing 50-60+ MPG's for what, over two decades now? Imagine where we'd be if the entire industry leaned into that tech... Instead we pursued an entirely unproven technology that required (and still requires) ridiculous infrastructure investment (charging network, energy grid improvements, chargers at home, etc) and isn't as green as people might want depending where you live in the world (externalities of power production). Electric is still not ready to replace all vehicles, and may never be - nor is it going to be willingly mass adopted anytime soon. The drawbacks, which proponents like to handwave away, are severe and real. Over the past couple decades we could have gradually improved MPG's on hybrids to astonishing (and impactful) levels. The crowd that fawned over Musk and his fantasies (the same crowd that now vehemently hates him, cuz politics...) would not accept hybrids or anything short of full electric vehicles. Well, you all were fooled... and here we are with the average real-world 2023 vehicle fuel economy still less than 30 MPG's...
- ekiourk 2y ago
  I think you are fooled and you don't know what you are talking about
  - Alupis 2y ago
    Care to fill us in?
- LeoPanthera 2y ago
  I wasn't "fooled", and this is vaguely insulting. My unwillingness to burn dinosaur juice is reason enough for me to believe that hybrids are not "better" than BEVs, but BEVs are also (a lot) more efficient per watt, they require less maintenance, the running costs are lower, the performance is better, and in the long run, they're more future proof. In fact it's hard to think of any reason why a hybrid would better except for "there are gas stations everywhere", but this reason is temporary at best, and ignores the fact that I can "fill" my EV at home, so I always leave the house with a full "tank". It's very rare that I have to visit a public charger. And hey, even when I do, my hands don't stink of gasoline anymore.

loud_cloud 2y ago

Terrible take.

kolinko 2y ago

Dodn’t their president just leave because he missed with their approach to EVs?

recursive 2y ago

No one doubts they made the decision intentionally. I think we still haven't seen whether it was a good call or not.

dylan604 2y ago
It's not like they are ignoring it. They are building custom chips with cores dedicated to the task.

luhn 2y ago

Toyota is behind the EV curve because they focused their R&D on hydrogen vehicles. They didn't make an EV vs hybrid bet, they made an EV vs hydrogen bet and it's not paying off.