5 ms·

> No, not really. Theft is not the answer. Well HN's favored solution seems to be not caring that people are homeless until they start scaring rich people, at

> No, not really. Theft is not the answer. Well HN's favored solution seems to be not caring that people are homeless until they start scaring rich people, at which point you lock them up in "mental health" institutions that are less about helping them and more about keeping them away from rich people. My solution is not letting people own homes they don't live in, but that's going to crash a lot of rich people's investments, so we can't have that. Making sure the rich get richer is apparently more important than meeting citizens' basic needs. So frankly, theft is the best answer currently available. I'd prefer they stole from the people actually causing the problem, the rich who buy up housing and make it unaffordable. But when they don't, maybe the middle class being stolen from shouldn't be so confused about why that's happening. Ultimately I'm not sure why you don't have the same moral outrage about rich people buying up people's basic needs and holding them for ransom so they can get richer, as you do about poor people stealing to meet their basic needs.

jjav 2y ago
> I'd prefer they stole from the people actually causing the problem, the rich who buy up housing and make it unaffordable. If you actually want to protest the system this is what you should do. Go occupy the vacant summer homes of rich politicians and CEOs.
- kerkeslager 2y ago
  I think people angry about squatters are thinking that squatters are squatting for political reasons, because for people angry about squatters, this is a political issue. For squatters, this isn't primarily a political issue, it's primarily a survival issue. Squatting in the summer house of a CEO does solve your survival need for shelter, but it leaves a bunch of your other survival needs unmet because you're far away from, for example, grocery stores, and don't have the resources that the CEO has to have staff deliver and prepare your food. So I'd guess that's why squatters aren't targeting these properties. The narrative that squatters are being disingenuous about their political beliefs because they squat the wrong homes is really just a tool to paint squatters as disingenuous political activists. The reality is that while squatters might hold political beliefs, few people would choose to squat if they had other housing options. It's not a secure housing situation. Most squatters are squatting out of necessity not political motivations.
  - thegrim33 2y ago
    > The reality is that while squatters might hold political beliefs, few people would choose to squat if they had other housing options Here in Seattle, time and time again, studies are done which show the majority of homeless, when offered shelter, turn it down and prefer to live on the streets. Which seems to completely contradict your claim that they would make use of housing options. Maybe Seattle homeless are different than your homeless. I don't know why that'd be the case. The same people with the same political ideologies blame the cause of it on the same things, in both places, at least. https://komonews.com/news/project-seattle/many-homeless-people-decline-shelter-offers-by-city-of-seattle-report-finds https://komonews.com/news/project-seattle/many-homeless-peop... https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-city-council-wants-data-on-why-people-experiencing-homelessness-reject-shelter-homeless-king-county-washington-street-region-policy-tammy-morales-human-services-public-meeting-offers-michael-bailey https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-city-council-wants-d... https://www.seattlepi.com/homeless_in_seattle/article/A-lot-of-homeless-people-the-city-refers-to-14504490.php https://www.seattlepi.com/homeless_in_seattle/article/A-lot-...
    - kerkeslager 2y ago
      > > The reality is that while squatters might hold political beliefs, few people would choose to squat if they had other housing options > Here in Seattle, time and time again, studies are done which show the majority of homeless, when offered shelter, turn it down and prefer to live on the streets. Which seems to completely contradict your claim that they would make use of housing options. Shelters aren't homes. Can they store their things there and reasonably expect they won't be stolen? Can they have pets? Can they have privacy? Would you stay in a homeless shelter? I mean, come on. The fact that anyone at all says yes to staying in these places shows just how bad staying on the streets is.
    - MrJohz 2y ago
      Interestingly, they've found the opposite effect in a number of places in Europe, which suggests that the Seattle homeless population really are quite different, or that there's something odd in how these sorts of policies are being implemented in Seattle. I suspect the latter: you're talking about temporary shelter accommodation, but the policy of Housing First is to give homeless people permanent flats and houses of their own. I can understand why people would not be interested in the former but would accept the latter. See for example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First https://thebetter.news/housing-first-finland-homelessness/ https://thebetter.news/housing-first-finland-homelessness/
chipdart 2y ago
> Well HN's favored solution seems to be not caring that people are homeless (...) I think you're not realizing that "homeless" and "okupas" are completely separate problems, and "okupas" in Spain are typically criminal organizations dedicated to pulling extortion schemes. I'm talking about lawyer-types riding in BMWs which get a hold of indigents to invade a space, and proceed to demand "compensation" from property owners to "convince" said indigents to walk out. This is not new or rare. It's a Spanish twist on the old protection rackets, and one which only exists because useful idiots convinced themselves that siding with organized crime networks is somehow benefiting society.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

jjav 2y ago

> I'd prefer they stole from the people actually causing the problem, the rich who buy up housing and make it unaffordable. If you actually want to protest the system this is what you should do. Go occupy the vacant summer homes of rich politicians and CEOs.

kerkeslager 2y ago
I think people angry about squatters are thinking that squatters are squatting for political reasons, because for people angry about squatters, this is a political issue. For squatters, this isn't primarily a political issue, it's primarily a survival issue. Squatting in the summer house of a CEO does solve your survival need for shelter, but it leaves a bunch of your other survival needs unmet because you're far away from, for example, grocery stores, and don't have the resources that the CEO has to have staff deliver and prepare your food. So I'd guess that's why squatters aren't targeting these properties. The narrative that squatters are being disingenuous about their political beliefs because they squat the wrong homes is really just a tool to paint squatters as disingenuous political activists. The reality is that while squatters might hold political beliefs, few people would choose to squat if they had other housing options. It's not a secure housing situation. Most squatters are squatting out of necessity not political motivations.
- thegrim33 2y ago
  > The reality is that while squatters might hold political beliefs, few people would choose to squat if they had other housing options Here in Seattle, time and time again, studies are done which show the majority of homeless, when offered shelter, turn it down and prefer to live on the streets. Which seems to completely contradict your claim that they would make use of housing options. Maybe Seattle homeless are different than your homeless. I don't know why that'd be the case. The same people with the same political ideologies blame the cause of it on the same things, in both places, at least. https://komonews.com/news/project-seattle/many-homeless-people-decline-shelter-offers-by-city-of-seattle-report-finds https://komonews.com/news/project-seattle/many-homeless-peop... https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-city-council-wants-data-on-why-people-experiencing-homelessness-reject-shelter-homeless-king-county-washington-street-region-policy-tammy-morales-human-services-public-meeting-offers-michael-bailey https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-city-council-wants-d... https://www.seattlepi.com/homeless_in_seattle/article/A-lot-of-homeless-people-the-city-refers-to-14504490.php https://www.seattlepi.com/homeless_in_seattle/article/A-lot-...
  - kerkeslager 2y ago
    > > The reality is that while squatters might hold political beliefs, few people would choose to squat if they had other housing options > Here in Seattle, time and time again, studies are done which show the majority of homeless, when offered shelter, turn it down and prefer to live on the streets. Which seems to completely contradict your claim that they would make use of housing options. Shelters aren't homes. Can they store their things there and reasonably expect they won't be stolen? Can they have pets? Can they have privacy? Would you stay in a homeless shelter? I mean, come on. The fact that anyone at all says yes to staying in these places shows just how bad staying on the streets is.
  - MrJohz 2y ago
    Interestingly, they've found the opposite effect in a number of places in Europe, which suggests that the Seattle homeless population really are quite different, or that there's something odd in how these sorts of policies are being implemented in Seattle. I suspect the latter: you're talking about temporary shelter accommodation, but the policy of Housing First is to give homeless people permanent flats and houses of their own. I can understand why people would not be interested in the former but would accept the latter. See for example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First https://thebetter.news/housing-first-finland-homelessness/ https://thebetter.news/housing-first-finland-homelessness/

chipdart 2y ago

> Well HN's favored solution seems to be not caring that people are homeless (...) I think you're not realizing that "homeless" and "okupas" are completely separate problems, and "okupas" in Spain are typically criminal organizations dedicated to pulling extortion schemes. I'm talking about lawyer-types riding in BMWs which get a hold of indigents to invade a space, and proceed to demand "compensation" from property owners to "convince" said indigents to walk out. This is not new or rare. It's a Spanish twist on the old protection rackets, and one which only exists because useful idiots convinced themselves that siding with organized crime networks is somehow benefiting society.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]