5 ms·
HP bricks customers laptops with faulty automatic BIOS upgrade
- munk-a 2y agoThis is honestly just par for the course for HP. The customers should feel lucky that their machines bricked before lighting their houses on fire. A lower quality mainstream computer manufacturer does not exist.
- nebula8804 2y agoMan you aren't kidding. It has been going on for a long time now. I work on vintage computers for "fun" and recently got a couple of those HP "bubble" systems from the 90s. What a pain in the arse to disassemble. They have to make the PC so convoluted to take apart and have multiple parts where a normal PC just has one. (Ex. Front panel is multiple pieces of brittle plastic, extra metal pieces that are overkill and are sharp so you always cut yourself). I have a stack of P4 and Core 2 era machines that just have some random failure and its almost not worth my time anymore to fix them other than curiosity. P4 and core2 are basically worthless but HP P4 and Core2 systems? No one wants that trash.
- dylan604 2y ago> extra metal pieces that are overkill and are sharp so you always cut yourself This is memory I have as well, but not specific to Dell. It was the least favorite part of building/updating any PC from back then. I don't remember one time of not coming away with some sort of scrape or cut.
- nebula8804 2y agoYeah it was common in 90s PCs. Dell had those silly metal "bars" you had to remove. Like did anyone care if the case would stay intact if you dropped it? But HP just had so much extra redundant metal that you'd have to touch to disassemble the pc so it was just so much more common(in my opinion).
- neilv 2y ago> P4 and core2 are basically worthless but HP P4 and Core2 systems? No one wants that trash. Nobody wants post-Fiorina HP computers. But I recently sold several Core 2 IBM/Lenovo laptops, for significant money, because people love those. Last night, I ordered a part to polish up the final one on hand, to sell for $200+.
- Rinzler89 2y ago>But I recently sold several Core 2 IBM/Lenovo laptops, for significant money, because people love those. What do people do with them? Those chips came out in 2006. Loading a modern JS heavy webpage will kneel a Core 2 Duo laptop chip. Maybe it's tinkerers and businesses who buy them, not people. Business who depend on keeping older machinery going in workshops and what not. If you're an average joe in need of a laptop at home for web & stuff, for 200+ USD used you can get much more modern machines for home users that will be better at running modern web content than core 2 duo machines.
- neilv 2y agoI was using Core 2 Duo just fine as daily drivers with Linux until a year ago. I upgraded for different reasons. With 8GB RAM, they will run 3 separate Web browsers at once, still using only a minority of the RAM, and are just fine with pretty much any Web site. (Maybe it helped to be using uBlock Origin, which reduces both page load bulk, and also eliminates some very invasive behavioral spying that can be resource-heavy.) One of the ~10 Core 2 ThinkPads I recently I sold went to a business involved with used science lab equipment. The rest of the sales seemed to be for probably personal use.
- Rinzler89 2y ago>I was using Core 2 Duo just fine as daily drivers Eh, everyone has a different subjective definition of what "just fine" means. In case of an emergency I guess could make do for a little while with one, but I came back once to my old Core 2 Quad system out of nostalgia and while it does works cand can do things, compared to my newish Ryzen laptop the difference when browsing the web and multitasking is absolutely night and day, but the day is on Pluto. Once you get used to a modern fast machine with 8 cores at 5GHz and NVME ssd, I just could never imagine going back to a core 2 duo and spinning rust machine today, Linux or not. The difference is staggering. >With 8GB RAM That definitely makes a difference, but it's a bit disingenuous, since stuff like 8GB RAM or SSDs were not the standard for Core 2 Duo machines though. Most of those machines you'll find in the wild tend to have more like 1-4GB RAM and spinning rust. That's really tough to daily drive.
- dessimus 2y ago> A lower quality mainstream computer manufacturer does not exist. Just wait until you heard what ASUS Support does for their customers...
- mistrial9 2y agomany ASUS products have excellent engineering in my experience
- moffkalast 2y agoEh HP will at least repair it for free under warranty, ASUS will actively try to scam you to pay extra for repairs you don't even need.
- sva_ 2y agoTheir business class devices are pretty damn alright. Typing on one right now. Also the 3 year onsite repair included is pretty great. Would never buy a printer or so from them though.
- malux85 2y agoThat person in the thread was remarkably calm about their out of warranty laptop being randomly bricked, I would be fuming, that is not OK!
- bsza 2y agoI feel like the willingness to buy something from HP is already a pretty strong filter as to how much BS one can tolerate.
- jackpot433 2y agoSorry, accidentally linked to page three, you either find the way to page 1 yourself or use this link: https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Operating-System-and-Recovery/HP-Probook-BIOS-Upgrade-1-17-failed/td-p/9081096 https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Operating-System-and-...
- drpossum 2y agoNow here I thought HP went out of business for being a trash company because that's what a sane universe would have dictated.
- bayindirh 2y agoHP servers are complete opposite of their laptops. I today retired a 17 year old DL140 which was working fine.
- doubled112 2y agoIs their driver and firmware update section still paywalled?
- mustntmumble 2y agoYes, and also they are not HP servers, they are HPE. HP split off the server division into HPE Hewlett Packard Enterprise some years ago. I have a very high regard for HPE products, not so much for HP products...
- bayindirh 2y agoIt was an "HP server" when it arrived 17 years ago :) Split happened in 2015.
- bayindirh 2y agoIt was not paywalled before. It's new for HPE. I don't know why they started doing it. Probably due to GreenLake (server renting) initiative.
- rcostin2k2 2y agoYes, unless you are under warranty or there is a critical patch release. This habit emerged since the 'strategic' merge with Micro Focus. I think they are, in fact, in charge with all software side of HPE.
- 2y ago
- busterarm 2y agoNot even surprised. 20 years ago when I worked in retail selling computers, we had moderately high end HP laptop at a great sale price with an extra RAM slot that many customers opted to get a stick for. We started getting returns immediately and once we started inspecting the laptops, we saw that the extra DIMM slot didn't even have any lines connecting it on the motherboard. HP tried to insist that they wouldn't credit us for the returned defective computers without us signing an NDA, which we refused but still shipped back all the units from our entire chain of retail stores. This was many thousands of units and they probably lost an assload on the returns. Their products have been garbage for a long, long time.
- BenFranklin100 2y agoWe have several HP Spectra X360s at work. People seem pretty happy.
- busterarm 2y agoThanks, that guy. Also. https://www.reddit.com/r/Hewlett_Packard/comments/11zykiu/do_not_purchase_an_hpspectre_x360/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Hewlett_Packard/comments/11zykiu/do...
- BenFranklin100 2y agoNo need to be a snarky asshole. I’m just relating our experience at work. The link seems to focus on playing video games on the device, not office apps and browsing.
- busterarm 2y agoOh nothing about the power bricks...bricking...
- RIMR 2y agoDell did something similar to me, but way scummier a decade ago with my Dell XPS L702x. I bought it spec'd down with the intent to upgrade it myself with parts I had a better deal for. It was advertised as having two DIMM slots, and I ordered it with only one small stick of RAM because I had a source for two of the largest supported sticks. When I got the Computer, there was only one DIMM slot. The technicians had me take the entire thing apart looking for the second slot under they keyboard, but instead I found a an entire unpopulated part of the board with the words "DIMM 2" printed on it, with no slot to put another stick of RAM into. When I figured out that they had lied in their spec sheet, I asked for a replacement motherboard with two DIMM slots. They explained that for computers ordered with less than 2 sticks of RAM, they use a single-slot board. I pointed out that the line "2x DIMM" was on my order, and they complained that the only in-stock version of the motherboard that was compatible with 2 sticks of RAM was the version for the 3D version of the laptop which would require the complete replacement of my computer with a better processor and better monitor. After calling them daily for a few weeks, and sending them a letter from a lawyer, they finally shipped me the new laptop. Bought myself a pair of active switching 3D glasses and hand fun with that for about an hour before finally enjoying my laptop like I intended to.
- INTPenis 2y agoWhat a nightmare, for all parties involved. As a consumer this is what must not happen, and someone at HP QA must be kicking themselves right now.
- mulmen 2y agoDoes HP have QA anymore? I haven't seen or heard from a QA person in years. From what I can tell nobody has QA anymore. I think it was a rapture situation. If anyone was worthy of salvation it was QA.
- mattmcknight 2y agoNo, they sold Quality Center Enterprise to MicroFocus in 2017. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenText_Quality_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenText_Quality_Center
- Qem 2y agoThis is news to me. I knew they bricked your printer if a non-HP cartridge was found. Now they brick your computer too? I hope they don't venture in the pacemaker market any soon. Then HP may brick consumers themselves.
- mathattack 2y agoWhat a tarnished legacy. They used to be the model for Silicon Valley.
- throw46365 2y agoSomeone in that thread talks about the numbers of devices potentially affected versus the few complaints. I’m not sure “potentially millions” is right; I suspect individual HP models (of which there are many) maybe sell in the tens or at most low hundreds of thousands. But I fear the reason why there are so few complaints is easy: it’s a three-year-old HP laptop model so they are mostly already in the bin.
- chaostheory 2y agoI remember not being able to get a newer video card since HP opted not to update my bios. It’s surprising that my outcome was the better one.
- bearjaws 2y agoSemi-related, I have an HP envy x360 with 4500u (same one as the laptop posted) and I have to say, the way HP applies BIOS updates is reckless at best. The battery had died and when I first plugged it in, it immediately powered up, and started installing a BIOS update. If someone tripped on the power cord, or had a power outage, it would brick the laptop. I guess it downloaded the update the last time it was powered on (months ago). They should put a minimum battery % (could be as low as 10% I imagine), but it seems very likely to me if someone has just plugged in their laptop, there is a strong chance it may get unplugged as well. I only use this laptop to tune my AEM ECU on my car, and it rarely gets used, but I bet I am not the only one who has a HP laptop that isn't used every week.
- lobsterthief 2y agoI think they need minimum estimated battery time rather than battery %, since old batteries that have very little capacity remaining could still brick with a high % remaining. Or, like most laptops, just require power cable + some level of battery to install something so critical.
- immibis 2y agoThe real real Copy of final_2024_last solution is, of course, to make the BIOS chip twice as big as it needs to be, and flash the other half, then atomically change which is selected.
- fifteen1506 2y agoI believe that's called shadowbios or similar. I think a few laptops have it.
- Perz1val 2y agoI'm sure this has a name, Android uses A/B partitions for system updates, everything crucial should...
- crest 2y agoThe few cents for larger flash or the one-time cost to write less bloated firmware would cut into their budget for gambling, drugs and hookers.
- ultra_nick 2y agoWhy are hardware companies like this?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- mulmen 2y agoIt's not like software companies are any better. It's just plain ol' incompetency.
- deelowe 2y agoI've worked with many engineers from HP. They were NOT incompetent. What they did describe though was a culture of firefighting and micromanagement complaining there was no opportunity to drive systemic improvement.
- mulmen 2y agoOk if incompetence is not to blame how do you describe bricking customer laptops with a BIOS update?
- deelowe 2y agoLack of adequate testing probably due to rushed schedules, insufficient infrastructure, and perhaps poor release practices because management celebrates firefighting as it's the easiest way to show "business impact."
- richwater 2y agoWithout a vertically integrated environment, it's a race to the bottom. I cannot recommend any non-Apple laptop these days. They are all total shit for run-of-the-mill consumers. If you're tech inclined you can probably wipe and reinstall windows on a Lenovo thinkpad and come out _okay_, _maybe_.
- deleted 2y ago
- JohnMakin 2y agoWhat the heck is with the url here? looks weird and malicious https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Operating-System-and-Recovery/HP-Probook-BIOS-Upgrade-1-17-failed/td-p/9081096/page/3 https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Operating-System-and-...
- jackpot433 2y agoSadly their forums are like that
- JohnMakin 2y agoholy cow.
- mjcl 2y agoA former HP employee told me that a creating named subdomain required a VP-level signoff, while those "license plate" style subdomains could be provisioned by almost anybody via a self-service tool. So if there isn't a real reason for a nice URL, people tend to create license plate subdomains.
- viraptor 2y agoIt's not just forums. So many things, both internal and external at HP are like that for some weird reason (for a very long time now)
- adamomada 2y agoWhy would a malicious URL look malicious though, if it was trying to be malicious?
- purpleblue 2y agoCarly Fiorina successfully and completely dismantled "The HP Way" which was the root of Silicon Valley. After her, HP was nothing but a carcass and filled with opportunistic people that destroyed the company. HP looks at their customers like an enemy. Anyone who buys anything HP is intentionally making their lives miserable and they deserve it for not doing a modicum of research to avoid them.
- Rinzler89 2y ago>dismantled "The HP Way" which was the root of Silicon Valley. The "real" HP still lives on as its spinoffs that do "real" engineering: HPE servers, Agilent oscilloscopes, Broadcom optical sensors, Philips heartrate monitors. The consumer facing brand of HP (printers, laptops, etc) is bottom of the barrel Chinesium, same as Philips.
- varjag 2y agoAgilent stuck out to biotech years ago, scopes are now Keysight business.
- Animats 2y agoThis is worth filing a Computer Fraud and Abuse case. This clearly "exceeds authorized access". HP can argue in court that they are entitled to brick your laptop. That would probably not impress a jury or judge.
- krger 2y ago>This is worth filing a Computer Fraud and Abuse case. No.
- TheGamerUncle 2y agocurios honestly, why not and what do you think that actually merits filling a case? I am genuinely interested on hearing the mental gymnastics you do in order to hate consumers
- fckgw 2y agoDo you think this was on purpose? Or just a botched update?
- fallingsquirrel 2y agoDo you think "but it was an accident" should be an accepted legal route to escape liability for your actions?
- fckgw 2y agoFor the CFAA? Absolutely.
- TheCoelacanth 2y agoNo, but it usually makes it civil liability and not criminal liability. For the most part (there are exceptions), you can't accidentally commit a crime.
- abstractbeliefs 2y ago
- 0x1ch 2y agoSeems this has (now is) been the norm. HP recently acquired gaming peripheral company HyperX. I purchased a HyperX Cloud III headset on recommendation. While it hasn't bricked, apparently a month or so prior to now HP bricked all of those headphones for a month with no update.
- Feathercrown 2y agoI've bought two of those headsets and neither one lasted 2 years
- 0x1ch 2y agoI just got mine, they seem really nice. Only one issue with software and that was it. Hopefully it continues to be good.
- algaeselect 2y agoSame, bought 2 Hyper X Cloud Orbit-S Gaming (one for me and my partner), and they both broke within 2 years. If you look on the Amazon reviews and sort by date you will see everyone is having this problem, they break in the exact same place after about 2 years.
- er4hn 2y agoIf you do this in the cloud, it's DevOps. If you have a faulty automatic BIOS upgrade for on-prem products, it's the EU cyber resilience act.
- ejj28 2y agoI really liked my old 2013-era HP Elitebook, but honestly every other HP laptop I've come into contact with (and I used to see a lot at the laptop repair shop I worked at) has just sucked.
- sva_ 2y agoI personally really enjoy my 2023 Elitebook (Ryzen). The repairability was one of the main reasons I chose to buy it.
- sva_ 2y agoI just saw a new BIOS upgrade for my HP Elitebook 845 G10, but now I'm worried if I should install it. Should really get ahold of a bios chip programmer, since they're pretty cheap.
- can16358p 2y agoFor some reason I could never ever trust HP, their products never seem high quality and given the brand culture (especially about printers and cartgridges) I'm not even remotely surprised.
- dougg3 2y agoThis same kind of thing happened to a family member several years ago on his Dell Inspiron 3650 minitower. Dell’s automatic updates installed a BIOS update (3.9.0) that bricked the computer. It would just power off and on automatically forever, no way to even access the BIOS. A bunch of other people online ran into the exact same problem. I ended up reflashing the 3.9.0 BIOS to the flash chip and it fixed it [1]. Later on, people discovered that changing an Intel ME-related jumper on the motherboard also fixed it - a much easier fix. It seems crazy to me that manufacturers include BIOS updates as part of automatic updates, especially for out-of-warranty systems. [1] https://www.downtowndougbrown.com/2019/06/fix-dell-inspiron-3650-wont-boot-powers-itself-on-and-off-every-5-seconds/ https://www.downtowndougbrown.com/2019/06/fix-dell-inspiron-...
- bloomingeek 2y agoIn the 90s I owned several HP products including pcs, laptops and printers. First the printer ink cartridges were either half full or just trash, then Toshiba simply put out a better laptop. (hated to see the Toshiba laptop go away, they were easy to get into for upgrades.) Now I'm using a HP laptop with an i7 CPU and it's actually a nice machine. I'll see how much I like it when I need to open it up.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- eisa01 2y agoI switched jobs to a small startup, and could choose the laptop model for the first time Bought the latest generation HP Elitebook G11 to try something else than Lenovo that had crappy trackpads due to the nibble It has been a disaster in terms of software/BIOS: * The mic cut off my voice when I was speaking all the time * The CPU clocked down to ~300 MHz and got stuck there * External display would not work if I disconnected, came back 30-60 min later, and reconnected. Had to hibernate inbetween * The display would suddenly dim and be impossible to change I think all these issues resolved itself with some firmware update released last week, and today I discovered there's an "HP Audio Control" app that by default is set to "conference mode" and "AI noise reduction" Now I only need to get the built-in 5G modem to work Would have gotten a Microsoft Surface model, but the selection is very slim in Norway
- averageRoyalty 2y agoThe comments in this thread make me happy I live in a country with good consumer law. Who cares how long the "warranty" is? If you bricked my laptop, you'll fix it or give me a new one, simple as that.
- heartag 2y agoAlmost relevant: https://github.com/ctag/hp_envy_reviver https://github.com/ctag/hp_envy_reviver
- justinclift 2y agoThe best alternatives for now are probably Frame.work laptops: https://frame.work https://frame.work