5 ms·

AI-generated thumbnails used to promote 12 Angry Men on Amazon Prime

101 points by Michelangelo11 2y ago

michael-online 2y ago
All the incentives are there, not too surprising. What percentage of people will notice? How long until only a trained eye will recognize it?
- owlninja 2y ago
  Why not just grab a pic from the actual film?
  - michael-online 2y ago
    If youtube is to be believed, thumbnails make a dramatic difference to first-glance engagement. A model trained to find great(by what metrics?) screenshots from the film sounds like a fun project.
    - tgdude 2y ago
      https://recosense.medium.com/how-netflix-uses-ai-and-ml-to-determine-which-thumbnails-they-use-d633aef84bd5 https://recosense.medium.com/how-netflix-uses-ai-and-ml-to-d... This reminded me of this article I read a few years back. I wonder if they still use the same method.
    - jsnell 2y ago
      Netflix has written about their approach to solving that problem: https://netflixtechblog.com/ava-the-art-and-science-of-image-discovery-at-netflix-a442f163af6 https://netflixtechblog.com/ava-the-art-and-science-of-image... https://netflixtechblog.com/artwork-personalization-c589f074ad76 https://netflixtechblog.com/artwork-personalization-c589f074...
      - abraham 2y ago
        Netflix's approach has also had criticisms https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/oct/20/netflix-film-black-viewers-personalised-marketing-target https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/oct/20/netflix-film-b...
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      I'm looking forward to classic movies with AI-generated thumbnails that take the main actor or actress and make them do the "Youtube Thumbnail Surprised Face". Imagine The Maltese Falcon or Citizen Kane but with thumbnails that look like [1]. 1: https://hard-drive.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/youtubers-1024x538.jpg https://hard-drive.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/youtubers-...
      - ASalazarMX 2y ago
        The first image you conjured in my mind was Indiana Jones holding the holy grial and doing a pog face.
  - Drakim 2y ago
    This is the baffling part. Maybe it's like a "soft launch" thing to see if it works at all?
  - floren 2y ago
    That would require paying a contractor for ~5 minutes of time to skip through the movie until they find a good scene, take the screenshot, trim it, and upload it. Ugh. We've already got all these GPUs over in AWS, just spin up an image generation model and prompt it "Make a thumbnail preview image for the film {{film.name}}", good enough.
  - jccooper 2y ago
    That'd take a human with taste a terrifyingly large 5 minutes, whereas AI trash can be entirely programmatic, with maybe an intern picking the best of 4 in a couple seconds. Think of the savings, and with only a moderate impact on the reputation of your service.
  - dangerwill 2y ago
    Good point. I wonder if Amazon is experimenting with this with the idea that they will be able to make more "eye grabbing" thumbnails with genAI as opposed to pure stills from the given film. The click through rate may be a key metric internally, and since prime video is an add-on to prime the risk of customers dropping the service over this is low (compared to if Netflix did this)
  - eddieroger 2y ago
    Licensing fees. Why pay for individual images when you can just generate them and pay once for the tool.
- legitster 2y ago
  I mean, it's amazing how much we already put up with terrible Photoshops on movie covers and thumbnails. This is really just the next evolution.
- gpm 2y ago
  What percentage of people will notice the primary means of marketing the film? Almost all of them, surely. Maybe not consciously... but unconsciously certainly. Films are incredibly expensive products to produce, an average of $100 million dollars apparently [1]. Do the incentives really not align to pay for professional artists to create a high quality thumbnail? I doubt it. Hell, youtubers have figured out it's worth doing this on every video which cost and pull in 4-5 orders of magnitude less money. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0611/why-movies-cost-so-much-to-make.aspx https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0611/why-movies-...
glitchc 2y ago
> 19 Terrifying Men I loved that remake! Zombies intervene on jury deliberations, devouring one or two dissidents. The rest are able to negotiate a detente and quickly reach a unanimous verdict.
- internet101010 2y ago
  The sequel to Ram Ranch.
miguelxpn 2y ago
I am almost sure they use AI to generate subtitles too. Some subtitles have sentences that really look like automatic transcription errors.
- legitster 2y ago
  Text-to-speech has been around for decades at this point. AI might actually represent an improvement there.
  - moogly 2y ago
    As someone from a country that uses subtitles over dubbing, I'll let you know that subtitling movies/tv shows is an art form. Good subtitles are more akin to interpretation than translation. You have less space to fit, timing is important, you need to translate idioms, etc. Probably an art form that's going the way of the dodo, but nevertheless...
    - JadeNB 2y ago
      > Good subtitles are more akin to interpretation than translation. You have less space to fit, timing is important, you need to translate idioms, etc. Timing particularly! You'll often get a mystery where the detective says "And the killer is … [long, dramatic pause to survey the room] … the butler!", but the subtitles, displayed at the beginning of the sentence, just say "And the killer is the butler!"
      - noboostforyou 2y ago
        I've noticed HBO seems to have the highest quality subtitles in terms of timing and position on screen relative to the character speaking. Then there's other shows I watch on Netflix will do that exact thing you mentioned - spoiling the punchline because the subtitle appears before a single word is spoken.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
legitster 2y ago
FYI, this was probably not Amazon's doing - my understanding is the rightsholders that submit the movies to Amazon choose the thumbnails.
- erehweb 2y ago
  I'm suspicious that a rights holder would be submitting an AI thumbnail. Still, anything that Amazon puts in Prime is something they should be willing to stand behind.
  - xmprt 2y ago
    Why is that suspicious. The rights holders core competency is in making the content. If they can offload poster/thumbnail creation then I'm sure they would.
    - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 2y ago
      Part of that core competency is promotion isn't it? A part of that used to be posters to put in the lobby of a movie theater advertising what was coming soon. Much later home media needed a cover for the boxes. If I search for the movie on another amazon property I'd expect to see that poster.
  - arealaccount 2y ago
    If it was intentional it was a brilliant move - I've seen people talking about this movie now on several different forums.
    - ecshafer 2y ago
      12 angry men probably doesnt need marketing st this point
  - legitster 2y ago
    I think it's important to note that this happened on a very old movie. In the 67 years since it's original release, most people creatively attached to it have long since died. The person uploading it to Amazon is nothing more than a corporate bean-counter. > Still, anything that Amazon puts in Prime is something they should be willing to stand behind. Have you looked at their catalog? They publish movies that creators can't even bother to burn to DVDs.
iamleppert 2y ago
How long before they generate entire movies with AI? That's a great way to make a bag!
- sva_ 2y ago
  I wonder if it could have an impact on the development of the brain in children, if they grow up consuming realistic looking media that has subtle errors.
  - Tao3300 2y ago
    Sudden spike in elective surgery to have completely messed up hands and ears
- kredd 2y ago
  Watching a movie takes too long. We just need an AI movie-summarizer that'll convert a 2 hour long movie into a bite-sized 60 second long TikTok for human consumption.
  - immibis 2y ago
    This is the future of all online communication: the sender uses an LLM to expand a few sentences into a few pages, and the receiver uses another LLM to summarize it.
  - lelanthran 2y ago
    Done already, pre-AI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuSdU8tbcHY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuSdU8tbcHY
    - xeromal 2y ago
      I love classic youtube lol
- lelandfe 2y ago
  Washed Out had a recent music video made with AI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nb-M1GAOX8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nb-M1GAOX8 It's awful for various reasons, but I'm sure AI video will be pretty good, pretty soon.
papercrane 2y ago
I wonder what kind of results you might get using an AI model to choose a still from the film as the thumbnail.
- esafak 2y ago
  That already exists. Built into Google Photos, for example.
- Amorymeltzer 2y ago
  Isn't this (minus the AI buzzword) what Netflix does? They're constantly using different stills, (supposedly well-)designed for the given user. Edit: Noted by jsnell elsewhere here: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40599828 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40599828>
- singhkays 2y ago
  It's a thing at Netflix! And a pretty extensive and detailed approach https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axCBA3VD5dQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axCBA3VD5dQ https://netflixtechblog.com/artwork-personalization-c589f074ad76 https://netflixtechblog.com/artwork-personalization-c589f074...
ow293j45o23j 2y ago
A few weeks ago I was looking at albums in Apple Music. I read the blurbs on several albums in a row from a particular artist, and I noticed that they were all overly wordy, banal, and extensively reused the same rare words. So I searched on the subject and of course all the album background blurbs were AI-generated. Apple bought some company specifically for that purpose a few years ago. So now I know to not waste time reading the album blurbs on Apple Music.
- jlund-molfese 2y ago
  There are also unrelated websites that tell you the "meaning" of songs based on surface-level readings from a LLM https://oldtimemusic.com/w3/the-meaning-behind-the-song-its-so-good-to-see-you-again-by-mind-in-a-box/ https://oldtimemusic.com/w3/the-meaning-behind-the-song-its-... Annoying, because you can waste a few minutes reading the site before you realize that it's junk. It even pretends to be a person, with statements like "Personally, this song resonates with me on multiple levels. The story within the lyrics reminds me of the value of genuine connections and the joy of reuniting with loved ones!"
  - rchaud 2y ago
    Perhaps it was trained on a dataset of LinkedIn posts.
  - floren 2y ago
    I was trying to figure out some of the lyrics to "Harold of the Rocks" a while back, stumbled across that site and holy shit: > The lyrics of Harold of the Rocks are metaphorical and open to interpretation. They tell the story of a character named Harold, who is portrayed as an outcast in society. He stands out from the crowd and refuses to conform to societal norms, embodying a rebellious spirit. The song challenges the idea of conformity and expresses the band’s belief in the importance of staying true to oneself, regardless of the pressures to conform. > In a broader sense, Harold of the Rocks can be seen as a critique of a society that values conformity over individuality. It urges listeners to embrace their uniqueness and celebrate their differences instead of succumbing to societal expectations. The lyrics provoke thought and encourage listeners to question the status quo, making it a powerful anthem for those who feel like outsiders or outcasts. It's a song about a crack addict, people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvNWhr9BmcQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvNWhr9BmcQ
Imnimo 2y ago
Very curious to know what sequence of events led to this. Are other movies using AI-generated thumbnails?
gowld 2y ago
Is this post/picture available somewhere else than twitter.com ?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
maxbond 2y ago
Recently I was reading the news and saw an article from USA Today with an AI-generated cover graphic of Donald Trump. And with both this and 19 Terrifying Men, I'm at a loss why anyone would do that. Surely people have already made thumbnails from 12 Angry Men, why did we need to change to a worse one? Similarly, there must be tens of millions of photos of Donald Trump, from every stage of his life, available to license. Surely USA Today has a subscription to an archive where they can pull a stock image of Trump for no marginal cost. What is the thought process here? Do they have a new hammer and see everything as a nail? Or is there a reason this makes sense that I'm not seeing?
- lompad 2y ago
  Copyright laundering. Easily the cheapest way to get decorative pictures where reality doesn't matter much - at least for now, until the law in various countries catches up to this practice.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

All the incentives are there, not too surprising. What percentage of people will notice? How long until only a trained eye will recognize it?

owlninja 2y ago
Why not just grab a pic from the actual film?
- michael-online 2y ago
  If youtube is to be believed, thumbnails make a dramatic difference to first-glance engagement. A model trained to find great(by what metrics?) screenshots from the film sounds like a fun project.
  - tgdude 2y ago
    https://recosense.medium.com/how-netflix-uses-ai-and-ml-to-determine-which-thumbnails-they-use-d633aef84bd5 https://recosense.medium.com/how-netflix-uses-ai-and-ml-to-d... This reminded me of this article I read a few years back. I wonder if they still use the same method.
  - jsnell 2y ago
    Netflix has written about their approach to solving that problem: https://netflixtechblog.com/ava-the-art-and-science-of-image-discovery-at-netflix-a442f163af6 https://netflixtechblog.com/ava-the-art-and-science-of-image... https://netflixtechblog.com/artwork-personalization-c589f074ad76 https://netflixtechblog.com/artwork-personalization-c589f074...
    - abraham 2y ago
      Netflix's approach has also had criticisms https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/oct/20/netflix-film-black-viewers-personalised-marketing-target https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/oct/20/netflix-film-b...
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    I'm looking forward to classic movies with AI-generated thumbnails that take the main actor or actress and make them do the "Youtube Thumbnail Surprised Face". Imagine The Maltese Falcon or Citizen Kane but with thumbnails that look like [1]. 1: https://hard-drive.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/youtubers-1024x538.jpg https://hard-drive.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/youtubers-...
    - ASalazarMX 2y ago
      The first image you conjured in my mind was Indiana Jones holding the holy grial and doing a pog face.
- Drakim 2y ago
  This is the baffling part. Maybe it's like a "soft launch" thing to see if it works at all?
- floren 2y ago
  That would require paying a contractor for ~5 minutes of time to skip through the movie until they find a good scene, take the screenshot, trim it, and upload it. Ugh. We've already got all these GPUs over in AWS, just spin up an image generation model and prompt it "Make a thumbnail preview image for the film {{film.name}}", good enough.
- jccooper 2y ago
  That'd take a human with taste a terrifyingly large 5 minutes, whereas AI trash can be entirely programmatic, with maybe an intern picking the best of 4 in a couple seconds. Think of the savings, and with only a moderate impact on the reputation of your service.
- dangerwill 2y ago
  Good point. I wonder if Amazon is experimenting with this with the idea that they will be able to make more "eye grabbing" thumbnails with genAI as opposed to pure stills from the given film. The click through rate may be a key metric internally, and since prime video is an add-on to prime the risk of customers dropping the service over this is low (compared to if Netflix did this)
- eddieroger 2y ago
  Licensing fees. Why pay for individual images when you can just generate them and pay once for the tool.
legitster 2y ago
I mean, it's amazing how much we already put up with terrible Photoshops on movie covers and thumbnails. This is really just the next evolution.
gpm 2y ago
What percentage of people will notice the primary means of marketing the film? Almost all of them, surely. Maybe not consciously... but unconsciously certainly. Films are incredibly expensive products to produce, an average of $100 million dollars apparently [1]. Do the incentives really not align to pay for professional artists to create a high quality thumbnail? I doubt it. Hell, youtubers have figured out it's worth doing this on every video which cost and pull in 4-5 orders of magnitude less money. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0611/why-movies-cost-so-much-to-make.aspx https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0611/why-movies-...

glitchc 2y ago

> 19 Terrifying Men I loved that remake! Zombies intervene on jury deliberations, devouring one or two dissidents. The rest are able to negotiate a detente and quickly reach a unanimous verdict.

internet101010 2y ago
The sequel to Ram Ranch.

miguelxpn 2y ago

I am almost sure they use AI to generate subtitles too. Some subtitles have sentences that really look like automatic transcription errors.

legitster 2y ago
Text-to-speech has been around for decades at this point. AI might actually represent an improvement there.
- moogly 2y ago
  As someone from a country that uses subtitles over dubbing, I'll let you know that subtitling movies/tv shows is an art form. Good subtitles are more akin to interpretation than translation. You have less space to fit, timing is important, you need to translate idioms, etc. Probably an art form that's going the way of the dodo, but nevertheless...
  - JadeNB 2y ago
    > Good subtitles are more akin to interpretation than translation. You have less space to fit, timing is important, you need to translate idioms, etc. Timing particularly! You'll often get a mystery where the detective says "And the killer is … [long, dramatic pause to survey the room] … the butler!", but the subtitles, displayed at the beginning of the sentence, just say "And the killer is the butler!"
    - noboostforyou 2y ago
      I've noticed HBO seems to have the highest quality subtitles in terms of timing and position on screen relative to the character speaking. Then there's other shows I watch on Netflix will do that exact thing you mentioned - spoiling the punchline because the subtitle appears before a single word is spoken.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]

legitster 2y ago

FYI, this was probably not Amazon's doing - my understanding is the rightsholders that submit the movies to Amazon choose the thumbnails.

erehweb 2y ago
I'm suspicious that a rights holder would be submitting an AI thumbnail. Still, anything that Amazon puts in Prime is something they should be willing to stand behind.
- xmprt 2y ago
  Why is that suspicious. The rights holders core competency is in making the content. If they can offload poster/thumbnail creation then I'm sure they would.
  - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 2y ago
    Part of that core competency is promotion isn't it? A part of that used to be posters to put in the lobby of a movie theater advertising what was coming soon. Much later home media needed a cover for the boxes. If I search for the movie on another amazon property I'd expect to see that poster.
- arealaccount 2y ago
  If it was intentional it was a brilliant move - I've seen people talking about this movie now on several different forums.
  - ecshafer 2y ago
    12 angry men probably doesnt need marketing st this point
- legitster 2y ago
  I think it's important to note that this happened on a very old movie. In the 67 years since it's original release, most people creatively attached to it have long since died. The person uploading it to Amazon is nothing more than a corporate bean-counter. > Still, anything that Amazon puts in Prime is something they should be willing to stand behind. Have you looked at their catalog? They publish movies that creators can't even bother to burn to DVDs.

iamleppert 2y ago

How long before they generate entire movies with AI? That's a great way to make a bag!

sva_ 2y ago
I wonder if it could have an impact on the development of the brain in children, if they grow up consuming realistic looking media that has subtle errors.
- Tao3300 2y ago
  Sudden spike in elective surgery to have completely messed up hands and ears
kredd 2y ago
Watching a movie takes too long. We just need an AI movie-summarizer that'll convert a 2 hour long movie into a bite-sized 60 second long TikTok for human consumption.
- immibis 2y ago
  This is the future of all online communication: the sender uses an LLM to expand a few sentences into a few pages, and the receiver uses another LLM to summarize it.
- lelanthran 2y ago
  Done already, pre-AI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuSdU8tbcHY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuSdU8tbcHY
  - xeromal 2y ago
    I love classic youtube lol
lelandfe 2y ago
Washed Out had a recent music video made with AI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nb-M1GAOX8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nb-M1GAOX8 It's awful for various reasons, but I'm sure AI video will be pretty good, pretty soon.

papercrane 2y ago

I wonder what kind of results you might get using an AI model to choose a still from the film as the thumbnail.

esafak 2y ago
That already exists. Built into Google Photos, for example.
Amorymeltzer 2y ago
Isn't this (minus the AI buzzword) what Netflix does? They're constantly using different stills, (supposedly well-)designed for the given user. Edit: Noted by jsnell elsewhere here: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40599828 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40599828>
singhkays 2y ago
It's a thing at Netflix! And a pretty extensive and detailed approach https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axCBA3VD5dQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axCBA3VD5dQ https://netflixtechblog.com/artwork-personalization-c589f074ad76 https://netflixtechblog.com/artwork-personalization-c589f074...

ow293j45o23j 2y ago

A few weeks ago I was looking at albums in Apple Music. I read the blurbs on several albums in a row from a particular artist, and I noticed that they were all overly wordy, banal, and extensively reused the same rare words. So I searched on the subject and of course all the album background blurbs were AI-generated. Apple bought some company specifically for that purpose a few years ago. So now I know to not waste time reading the album blurbs on Apple Music.

jlund-molfese 2y ago
There are also unrelated websites that tell you the "meaning" of songs based on surface-level readings from a LLM https://oldtimemusic.com/w3/the-meaning-behind-the-song-its-so-good-to-see-you-again-by-mind-in-a-box/ https://oldtimemusic.com/w3/the-meaning-behind-the-song-its-... Annoying, because you can waste a few minutes reading the site before you realize that it's junk. It even pretends to be a person, with statements like "Personally, this song resonates with me on multiple levels. The story within the lyrics reminds me of the value of genuine connections and the joy of reuniting with loved ones!"
- rchaud 2y ago
  Perhaps it was trained on a dataset of LinkedIn posts.
- floren 2y ago
  I was trying to figure out some of the lyrics to "Harold of the Rocks" a while back, stumbled across that site and holy shit: > The lyrics of Harold of the Rocks are metaphorical and open to interpretation. They tell the story of a character named Harold, who is portrayed as an outcast in society. He stands out from the crowd and refuses to conform to societal norms, embodying a rebellious spirit. The song challenges the idea of conformity and expresses the band’s belief in the importance of staying true to oneself, regardless of the pressures to conform. > In a broader sense, Harold of the Rocks can be seen as a critique of a society that values conformity over individuality. It urges listeners to embrace their uniqueness and celebrate their differences instead of succumbing to societal expectations. The lyrics provoke thought and encourage listeners to question the status quo, making it a powerful anthem for those who feel like outsiders or outcasts. It's a song about a crack addict, people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvNWhr9BmcQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvNWhr9BmcQ

Imnimo 2y ago

Very curious to know what sequence of events led to this. Are other movies using AI-generated thumbnails?

gowld 2y ago

Is this post/picture available somewhere else than twitter.com ?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

maxbond 2y ago

Recently I was reading the news and saw an article from USA Today with an AI-generated cover graphic of Donald Trump. And with both this and 19 Terrifying Men, I'm at a loss why anyone would do that. Surely people have already made thumbnails from 12 Angry Men, why did we need to change to a worse one? Similarly, there must be tens of millions of photos of Donald Trump, from every stage of his life, available to license. Surely USA Today has a subscription to an archive where they can pull a stock image of Trump for no marginal cost. What is the thought process here? Do they have a new hammer and see everything as a nail? Or is there a reason this makes sense that I'm not seeing?

lompad 2y ago
Copyright laundering. Easily the cheapest way to get decorative pictures where reality doesn't matter much - at least for now, until the law in various countries catches up to this practice.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]