5 ms·

Canadians are angry with their biggest supermarket

25 points by onemoresoop 2y ago

canadiantim 2y ago
Because of politics. The NDP (the lesser partner in this effectively coalition government) is trying to demonize grocery stores for political points.
guardiangod 2y ago
Target tried to enter the Canadian market and lost $5.4 billion. Yes it's not a grocer but the idea is similar: Canada is a hard country for foreign companies to enter. The countries is filled with failed foreign entrances: cellular, grocer, clothing brands.
- maximilianburke 2y ago
  Agreed. If we (Canada) want to make a serious effort at reducing the inflationary expense of groceries, we should start looking at things like the protection racket surrounding our domestic dairy product industry. But I don't see that happening because that'll lose votes in areas where the Liberal party is weak.
  - randomdata 2y ago
    The farm and farm-adjacent population make up such a small segment of the population these days, even in farming areas, that nobody has to appeal to them. However, the government is legally obligated to buy back the quota, which would be a devastating cost. Ain't no politician (outside of those going to crazy town, like Bernier) would ever touch that even with a ten foot pole. It was done for tobacco in 2009, but the tobacco industry in Canada was already essentially nothing. The cost to get out was still massive, but only a tiny, tiny fraction of what it would cost to get out of dairy, poultry, and eggs.
- randomdata 2y ago
  Not just foreigners. A few years ago many Canadian restaurants tried to pivot to being grocery stores, but the customers never came in any meaningful way. Canadians are exceptionally brand loyal. Cell carriage is, indeed, another great example. Many of the home-grown independent telcos in Canada started operating cell networks in the mid-2000s, but they were never able to win over the customers loyal to Bell and Rogers. The CEO of one of those telcos, which remains a strong player in the wired market in my local area, states that venturing into mobile was his biggest mistake.
  - naasking 2y ago
    > Many of the home-grown independent telcos in Canada started operating cell networks in the mid-2000s, but they were never able to win over the customers loyal to Bell and Rogers. It has nothing to do with loyalty, the coverage of these networks is just bad. I'm on one right now. Canada is a huge sprawling country and many people venture far for camping, to cottages and so on, and they won't go with a cell provider where they lose service 10 mins outside of Toronto. It's even worse sometimes, coverage in cities adjacent to Toronto, like Oakville, is also sometimes bad. Canada's problem with mobile is sprawl and a largely ineffective regulator.
    - randomdata 2y ago
      > It has nothing to do with loyalty, the coverage of these networks is just bad. They had nationwide agreements. They still do, technically, but no longer operate any cell sites, now essentially being a Bell reseller. Even as a reseller, their customer base hasn't grown in any meaningful way, certainly not beyond the wired customer audience. In fact, I bet you don't even know their names. Nobody in Canada cares to look beyond their loyalty.
      - naasking 2y ago
        What typically happens is that they are just bought up by one of the big 3. I had a great plan with Fido, very reasonable prices and good service, and because they were growing, Rogers bought them up and then all the prices shot up to match Rogers.
- ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
  Canada is filled with failed companies. Canadians are risk averse, too afraid to stand out and too eager to put down America and claim to be better than them for any significant change to happen. Maybe the worst out of the developed countries across all metrics.
  - api_or_ipa 2y ago
    Maybe, but it’s also remarkable Canada hasn’t had a bank failure in >100 years. It’s a safe, peaceful and prosperous developed country. Hard to argue that Canada hasn’t done fairly well. I still agree it’s perhaps too risk averse, but I disagree it’s the worst performing of all developed countries in that regard.
- jhbadger 2y ago
  On the other hand, there are plenty of success stories of foreign chains entering Canada. Target's rival Walmart has been reasonably successful in Canada, having over 400 stores. Target made a lot of mistakes entering the Canadian market, starting with leasing locations of dying Canadian chain Zellers and even still running them as Zellers for years, which didn't help building up the Target brand in Canada.
  - VancouverMan 2y ago
    Target's approach was quite similar to what Walmart did in 1994, when Walmart entered the Canadian market. Walmart took over around a hundred or so of the long-established Woolco stores, and converted them to Walmart stores. The Woolco stores I'm aware of were then replaced with new larger Walmart-built store in the same area within a few years. I think Target's main problem was more timing rather than execution. In 1994, Canada still had a relatively strong middle class with money to spend, although that would eventually be harmed thanks to NAFTA, excessive government interference in the economy, and excessive immigration. By 2011 when Target showed up, Canada's middle class was already suffering, and it has only gotten much worse since then. All of the Target stores I ever visited in Canada were decent. The pricing typically wasn't as competitive as Walmart's was, but the Target stores were generally a nicer experience.
  - Kye 2y ago
    They also messed up with their computer system. I forget the details from the account I read, but it had to do with trying to import the entire system from the US, database included, and spending more time fixing errors than actually selling anything. That database (if I recall right) included the sales data they used to predict demand and allocate stock, and it was completely wrong for the new market. It might have worked if they started with a few stores to work out the kinks and incorporate the data into their planning systems, but they went for a huge launch instead and couldn't keep shelves stocked because nothing was where it needed to be.
- raydev 2y ago
  I don't know how this misconception persists, but Target's Canada failure was entirely Target's fault. They made huge errors in distribution/inventory and the shelves were empty from grand opening. They resolved their inventory issues after their fate had been sealed.
asdasdsddd 2y ago
Its almost like insane levels of immigration will increase demand for goods
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- napierzaza 2y ago
  knee jerk conversation has entered the chat It's disappointing to see people just apply whatever thing they are bother by to every situation. It comes off as pretty narrow minded and political.
- tharmas 2y ago
  The Liberal Party deserves to be wiped out entirely financially and politically for this wreckless policy. And that's coming from someone who utterly despises the Conservative party.
  - VancouverMan 2y ago
    I don't think that the Conservative Party will fix this problem. Much like the Liberal Party, the Conservatives are very pro-immigration. A Conservative government might impose a slight reduction in the rate, to create the appearance of differentiating themselves from the Liberals. I don't think they'd bring it down much beyond that. I certainly don't see the Conservative Party putting in place the negative immigration rate that's now unfortunately required to deal with the significant economic and social problems Canada is facing. I doubt they'd send home all of the temporary foreign workers, and deport the fake "refugees" who entered from the US, for example. Even the PPC, which is perhaps the most willing of the broadly mainstream parties to properly deal with this situation, is still calling for an immigration rate of "between 100,000 and 150,000 annually" in its current platform (https://www.thepeoplespartyofcanada.ca/issues/immigration https://www.thepeoplespartyofcanada.ca/issues/immigration).
    - tharmas 2y ago
      I agree that the Conservative Party won't fix what the Liberals did to Canada. I won't be voting Conservative. Never have, never will. The Conservative Party will do what the Conservative Party in the UK did: bring in MASSIVE AUSTERITY. When people start defaulting on their mortgages en mass the government will step in to buy up all the dodgy loans. In, short the taxpayer will be burdened with this huge debt. The Conservatives will say they have to introduce AUSTERITY to pay down this enormous debt. That means savage cuts to services. Just like in the UK. Ten years of Austerity in the UK has turned in the UK into a third world country. The only thing that will "save" Canada from third world status is that it has lots of natural resources. Provided there is demand for them and that they don't give it away too cheaply.
jhbadger 2y ago
I found it interesting that in the comparison of the largest grocery stores in the three countries (US, UK, and Canada), UK's Tesco beat out not only Canada's Loblaw, but US' Walmart as well. I know food isn't the only factor in cost of living, but typically the UK is presented as having a much higher COL than either the US or Canada, but not at least in this case.
- quantumfissure 2y ago
  Well, the butter is a different size (about half of US/CA size). When adjusted for that, it's very nearly the same as US prices. The other problem with these kinds of comparisons is size of country and if the average cost of a product is a nationwide calculation. Food costs in Labrador; Alaska; Hawai'i; and the Yukon are very different from more populated States and Provinces close to transportation routes. The entire UK is barely the size of the US's North East, and not nearly the size of even Ontario.
  - tharmas 2y ago
    Agreed. Maybe a Toronto to London to NYC Comparison along with some other smaller markets that are comparable. Otherwise its a bit like saying that Ireland has the highest GDP per capita.
ThrowawayTestr 2y ago
Because we're being gouged
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  I would not call 3% to 4% profit margins gouging. https://ycharts.com/companies/L.TO/profit_margin https://ycharts.com/companies/L.TO/profit_margin
incomingpain 2y ago
I disagree with the presumption that Canadians are angry with grocery stores, and virtually no one has boycotted Loblaws. Checking out Loblaws' six-month stock market performance, we see a rise from $122 per share to $161 per share, 30% increase since the botcott started. The highly unpopular government has significantly raised taxes on truckers and farmers, leading to food inflation. Rather than accepting responsibility, this 4th place political party, which is going to lose in the next election, is scapegoating grocery stores. However, this blame game isn't convincing anyone.
- naasking 2y ago
  Loblaws' stock price going up implies that their profits are better, which implies that their margins are better, which implies that consumers are paying more for the same goods because goods haven't become cheaper due to inflation across the board, which suggests that your claim that Canadians are NOT angry with them is probably not true. I think the fact that Canadians are upset with Loblaws is pretty well documented at this point.
  - randomdata 2y ago
    It does not imply that. In fact, given that restaurant patronage has declined significantly in Canada, if they are more profitable it is likely that they are more profitable on volume. Unless, perhaps, you think Canadians have traded going to restaurants with fasting?
    - naasking 2y ago
      No, profits are growing faster than sales: https://www.thestar.com/business/loblaw-forecasts-profits-will-grow-faster-than-sales-in-2023-as-revenue-up/article_56da5535-5f96-57b3-8898-5d480fb1cba0.html https://www.thestar.com/business/loblaw-forecasts-profits-wi...
      - randomdata 2y ago
        Fair, although that shows the gross margin has declined. So why would gross margin fall, but net margin rise? I posit that it is likely that they can operate more efficiently when the customers buy more groceries. But if people had an issue with Loblaw, why would they buy more groceries from them?
june6throwaway 2y ago
[dead]
- throwup238 2y ago
  > I'm curious for someone to make a steelman case as to why they think this is acceptable. Maple syrup reserves are running low and Canada will need bodies for the upcoming war over New England’s supply.
  - june6throwaway 2y ago
    At least Americans can find some humor in our slow cultural degradation.
    - blululu 2y ago
      Y’all make fun of us for everything from our lousy patchwork health care system to sucking at hockey. Seems only fair to send a little flack back across what’s left of the border.
    - throwup238 2y ago
      You'll be fine as long as no one starts replacing the cheese curds with paneer.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  A significant fraction of those people would be dead if they didn't immigrate.
  - naasking 2y ago
    Citation that a "significant fraction" of those who immigrated were facing certain death? Also, implicit in your post seems to be an assertion that the moral responsibility for their deaths would fall on us rather than the people causing the deadly circumstances in their home countries, and that we are thus we are obligated to help in this specific way. There are a lot of problems with this argument.
throwup238 2y ago
> Canada is also a highly multicultural country with 20% born elsewhere and a national grocer must target them to find success, Mr Singh said. Then why doesn’t Canada have a huge network of ethnic grocery stores tailored to more frugal immigrant communities? I assume it does and the issue is one of consumer education. They’re all over the US in every state with a decent immigrant population. Mexican, Persian, Armenian, Russian, Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese, Korean, Arabic, and so on - that’s just the ones off the top of my head that I shop at monthly. Chicken is usually cheaper at Costco and milk/eggs/cheese at Trader Joes, but all other meat and produce is significantly cheaper, on the order of 2-3x lower than the price at Costco/TJs. Their produce varies more based on whats in season and what their suppliers have the most of, but they also have crazy deals every week. My favorite this year was rebranded Sumo mandarins that sold for $0.33/lb which everyone else was selling for $2-3/lb (I was eating 3 pounds a day for a month).
- schmidtleonard 2y ago
  I understand that they are delicious but 3 pounds a day is a lot, throwup238.
  - randomdata 2y ago
    > but 3 pounds a day is a lot Not when you're known as "throwup".
- martythemaniak 2y ago
  There are tons of small-to-medium sized grocery stores with a strong ethnic focus and a focus on prices. You don't hear about them because they one-offs and not a national chain.
- asdasdsddd 2y ago
  There's a lot of ethnic grocers. Although Loblaws owns the largest chinese one
- davidjade 2y ago
  And where were these rebranded Sumo's? We only saw Sumo's this year for $4-5/lb nearly everywhere we looked. Were these rebranded things really Sumo's or did they just look like Sumo's. I did see something that looked like a Sumo call a 'dekopon' citrus at major grocers on the east coast, but they were maybe $1/lb cheaper as best and not as good or large as one with a Sumo sticker. They were more tart and not as an intense flavor. It's my understanding that the variety has existed for a long time in Japan and Sumo is just one specific branded citrus sub-variety from California.
unethical_ban 2y ago
There is a subreddit for complaining about Loblaws. https://old.reddit.com/r/loblawsisoutofcontrol/ https://old.reddit.com/r/loblawsisoutofcontrol/
Vermeulen 2y ago
Blaming 'corporate greed' is a easy thing for politicians to do. It's then not their actions that are causing prices to go up. Easy to point at things like 'record profits' of Loblaws, without looking at if their margins have changed (they haven't). If you keep the same margins and have the amount of business with inflation then of course there are 'record profits'.
- adamomada 2y ago
  Their margins actually did go up but it’s kinda hilarious when you see it — they’re squeaking out ~3% these days while it was a razor thin 1.x% before. Yup that’s an extra buck fitty on your $100 of groceries
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
infecto 2y ago
That comparison chart they made should be illegal. Even framing it with the pound its hard to fully read and compare each item.
Ajay-p 2y ago
For greater insight into how grocery stores are run in America, I highly recommend the gripping book "The Secret Life of Groceries: The Dark Miracle of the American Supermarket" by Benjamin Lorr. The author gets a job at Whole Foods and then works his way through the food chain, reporting every step of the way, and relating it back to what is seen and experienced at the store. Really excellent reporting IMO.
dblohm7 2y ago
I'm surprised the BBC left out the elephant in the room: Supply Management [1]. TL;DR Canada has highly protectionist dairy and poultry sectors that artificially constrict supply of dairy and poultry. You'll periodically read reports of dairy farmers intentionally dumping perfectly good milk [2] because they produced more than their allotted quota. Even worse, all the federal political parties are too cowardly to stop it; in fact, the House of Commons recently passed [3] a private member's bill that essentially prevents the Minister of Foreign Affairs from negotiating any trade agreement that would weaken the supply management regime. (As you can imagine, Canada often gets called out for its hypocrisy during trade negotiations.) The politicians are scared to anger dairy farmers, particularly the ones in Quebec. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_and_poultry_supply_management_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_and_poultry_supply_manag... [2] https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/dairy-covid-19-1.5528331 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/dairy-covid-19-1.5528331 [3] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/gift/eca53705d5e7568f5ed88c784a024289902cbf210bfcf084b29185c600b0a773/GMJ6H2EMDVBHXH35LD3KIJTXZE/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/gift/eca53705d5e7568f5ed88c7...
- ThrowawayTestr 2y ago
  I haven't seen the price of milk or eggs go up all that much but I've seen the price of soda and chips increase by more than 50% in the past few years. I'm fine with our farmers not having to compete with hormone infused milk.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- randomdata 2y ago
  > The politicians are scared to anger dairy farmers, particularly the ones in Quebec. The Progressive Conservatives were never afraid of angering dairy farmers. They ran on the very platform of ending the supply management in the 90s (granted, it didn't secure them a win, obviously). And, indeed, the PCs who remained in the CPC ranks have shown that they continued to believe in it, sometimes quite vocally. It's interesting that the Reformers are such scaredy cats.

25 points by onemoresoop 2y ago

Because of politics. The NDP (the lesser partner in this effectively coalition government) is trying to demonize grocery stores for political points.

guardiangod 2y ago

Target tried to enter the Canadian market and lost $5.4 billion. Yes it's not a grocer but the idea is similar: Canada is a hard country for foreign companies to enter. The countries is filled with failed foreign entrances: cellular, grocer, clothing brands.

maximilianburke 2y ago
Agreed. If we (Canada) want to make a serious effort at reducing the inflationary expense of groceries, we should start looking at things like the protection racket surrounding our domestic dairy product industry. But I don't see that happening because that'll lose votes in areas where the Liberal party is weak.
- randomdata 2y ago
  The farm and farm-adjacent population make up such a small segment of the population these days, even in farming areas, that nobody has to appeal to them. However, the government is legally obligated to buy back the quota, which would be a devastating cost. Ain't no politician (outside of those going to crazy town, like Bernier) would ever touch that even with a ten foot pole. It was done for tobacco in 2009, but the tobacco industry in Canada was already essentially nothing. The cost to get out was still massive, but only a tiny, tiny fraction of what it would cost to get out of dairy, poultry, and eggs.
randomdata 2y ago
Not just foreigners. A few years ago many Canadian restaurants tried to pivot to being grocery stores, but the customers never came in any meaningful way. Canadians are exceptionally brand loyal. Cell carriage is, indeed, another great example. Many of the home-grown independent telcos in Canada started operating cell networks in the mid-2000s, but they were never able to win over the customers loyal to Bell and Rogers. The CEO of one of those telcos, which remains a strong player in the wired market in my local area, states that venturing into mobile was his biggest mistake.
- naasking 2y ago
  > Many of the home-grown independent telcos in Canada started operating cell networks in the mid-2000s, but they were never able to win over the customers loyal to Bell and Rogers. It has nothing to do with loyalty, the coverage of these networks is just bad. I'm on one right now. Canada is a huge sprawling country and many people venture far for camping, to cottages and so on, and they won't go with a cell provider where they lose service 10 mins outside of Toronto. It's even worse sometimes, coverage in cities adjacent to Toronto, like Oakville, is also sometimes bad. Canada's problem with mobile is sprawl and a largely ineffective regulator.
  - randomdata 2y ago
    > It has nothing to do with loyalty, the coverage of these networks is just bad. They had nationwide agreements. They still do, technically, but no longer operate any cell sites, now essentially being a Bell reseller. Even as a reseller, their customer base hasn't grown in any meaningful way, certainly not beyond the wired customer audience. In fact, I bet you don't even know their names. Nobody in Canada cares to look beyond their loyalty.
    - naasking 2y ago
      What typically happens is that they are just bought up by one of the big 3. I had a great plan with Fido, very reasonable prices and good service, and because they were growing, Rogers bought them up and then all the prices shot up to match Rogers.
ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
Canada is filled with failed companies. Canadians are risk averse, too afraid to stand out and too eager to put down America and claim to be better than them for any significant change to happen. Maybe the worst out of the developed countries across all metrics.
- api_or_ipa 2y ago
  Maybe, but it’s also remarkable Canada hasn’t had a bank failure in >100 years. It’s a safe, peaceful and prosperous developed country. Hard to argue that Canada hasn’t done fairly well. I still agree it’s perhaps too risk averse, but I disagree it’s the worst performing of all developed countries in that regard.
jhbadger 2y ago
On the other hand, there are plenty of success stories of foreign chains entering Canada. Target's rival Walmart has been reasonably successful in Canada, having over 400 stores. Target made a lot of mistakes entering the Canadian market, starting with leasing locations of dying Canadian chain Zellers and even still running them as Zellers for years, which didn't help building up the Target brand in Canada.
- VancouverMan 2y ago
  Target's approach was quite similar to what Walmart did in 1994, when Walmart entered the Canadian market. Walmart took over around a hundred or so of the long-established Woolco stores, and converted them to Walmart stores. The Woolco stores I'm aware of were then replaced with new larger Walmart-built store in the same area within a few years. I think Target's main problem was more timing rather than execution. In 1994, Canada still had a relatively strong middle class with money to spend, although that would eventually be harmed thanks to NAFTA, excessive government interference in the economy, and excessive immigration. By 2011 when Target showed up, Canada's middle class was already suffering, and it has only gotten much worse since then. All of the Target stores I ever visited in Canada were decent. The pricing typically wasn't as competitive as Walmart's was, but the Target stores were generally a nicer experience.
- Kye 2y ago
  They also messed up with their computer system. I forget the details from the account I read, but it had to do with trying to import the entire system from the US, database included, and spending more time fixing errors than actually selling anything. That database (if I recall right) included the sales data they used to predict demand and allocate stock, and it was completely wrong for the new market. It might have worked if they started with a few stores to work out the kinks and incorporate the data into their planning systems, but they went for a huge launch instead and couldn't keep shelves stocked because nothing was where it needed to be.
raydev 2y ago
I don't know how this misconception persists, but Target's Canada failure was entirely Target's fault. They made huge errors in distribution/inventory and the shelves were empty from grand opening. They resolved their inventory issues after their fate had been sealed.

asdasdsddd 2y ago

Its almost like insane levels of immigration will increase demand for goods

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
napierzaza 2y ago
knee jerk conversation has entered the chat It's disappointing to see people just apply whatever thing they are bother by to every situation. It comes off as pretty narrow minded and political.
tharmas 2y ago
The Liberal Party deserves to be wiped out entirely financially and politically for this wreckless policy. And that's coming from someone who utterly despises the Conservative party.
- VancouverMan 2y ago
  I don't think that the Conservative Party will fix this problem. Much like the Liberal Party, the Conservatives are very pro-immigration. A Conservative government might impose a slight reduction in the rate, to create the appearance of differentiating themselves from the Liberals. I don't think they'd bring it down much beyond that. I certainly don't see the Conservative Party putting in place the negative immigration rate that's now unfortunately required to deal with the significant economic and social problems Canada is facing. I doubt they'd send home all of the temporary foreign workers, and deport the fake "refugees" who entered from the US, for example. Even the PPC, which is perhaps the most willing of the broadly mainstream parties to properly deal with this situation, is still calling for an immigration rate of "between 100,000 and 150,000 annually" in its current platform (https://www.thepeoplespartyofcanada.ca/issues/immigration https://www.thepeoplespartyofcanada.ca/issues/immigration).
  - tharmas 2y ago
    I agree that the Conservative Party won't fix what the Liberals did to Canada. I won't be voting Conservative. Never have, never will. The Conservative Party will do what the Conservative Party in the UK did: bring in MASSIVE AUSTERITY. When people start defaulting on their mortgages en mass the government will step in to buy up all the dodgy loans. In, short the taxpayer will be burdened with this huge debt. The Conservatives will say they have to introduce AUSTERITY to pay down this enormous debt. That means savage cuts to services. Just like in the UK. Ten years of Austerity in the UK has turned in the UK into a third world country. The only thing that will "save" Canada from third world status is that it has lots of natural resources. Provided there is demand for them and that they don't give it away too cheaply.

jhbadger 2y ago

I found it interesting that in the comparison of the largest grocery stores in the three countries (US, UK, and Canada), UK's Tesco beat out not only Canada's Loblaw, but US' Walmart as well. I know food isn't the only factor in cost of living, but typically the UK is presented as having a much higher COL than either the US or Canada, but not at least in this case.

quantumfissure 2y ago
Well, the butter is a different size (about half of US/CA size). When adjusted for that, it's very nearly the same as US prices. The other problem with these kinds of comparisons is size of country and if the average cost of a product is a nationwide calculation. Food costs in Labrador; Alaska; Hawai'i; and the Yukon are very different from more populated States and Provinces close to transportation routes. The entire UK is barely the size of the US's North East, and not nearly the size of even Ontario.
- tharmas 2y ago
  Agreed. Maybe a Toronto to London to NYC Comparison along with some other smaller markets that are comparable. Otherwise its a bit like saying that Ireland has the highest GDP per capita.

ThrowawayTestr 2y ago

Because we're being gouged

lotsofpulp 2y ago
I would not call 3% to 4% profit margins gouging. https://ycharts.com/companies/L.TO/profit_margin https://ycharts.com/companies/L.TO/profit_margin

incomingpain 2y ago

I disagree with the presumption that Canadians are angry with grocery stores, and virtually no one has boycotted Loblaws. Checking out Loblaws' six-month stock market performance, we see a rise from $122 per share to $161 per share, 30% increase since the botcott started. The highly unpopular government has significantly raised taxes on truckers and farmers, leading to food inflation. Rather than accepting responsibility, this 4th place political party, which is going to lose in the next election, is scapegoating grocery stores. However, this blame game isn't convincing anyone.

naasking 2y ago
Loblaws' stock price going up implies that their profits are better, which implies that their margins are better, which implies that consumers are paying more for the same goods because goods haven't become cheaper due to inflation across the board, which suggests that your claim that Canadians are NOT angry with them is probably not true. I think the fact that Canadians are upset with Loblaws is pretty well documented at this point.
- randomdata 2y ago
  It does not imply that. In fact, given that restaurant patronage has declined significantly in Canada, if they are more profitable it is likely that they are more profitable on volume. Unless, perhaps, you think Canadians have traded going to restaurants with fasting?
  - naasking 2y ago
    No, profits are growing faster than sales: https://www.thestar.com/business/loblaw-forecasts-profits-will-grow-faster-than-sales-in-2023-as-revenue-up/article_56da5535-5f96-57b3-8898-5d480fb1cba0.html https://www.thestar.com/business/loblaw-forecasts-profits-wi...
    - randomdata 2y ago
      Fair, although that shows the gross margin has declined. So why would gross margin fall, but net margin rise? I posit that it is likely that they can operate more efficiently when the customers buy more groceries. But if people had an issue with Loblaw, why would they buy more groceries from them?

june6throwaway 2y ago

[dead]

throwup238 2y ago
> I'm curious for someone to make a steelman case as to why they think this is acceptable. Maple syrup reserves are running low and Canada will need bodies for the upcoming war over New England’s supply.
- june6throwaway 2y ago
  At least Americans can find some humor in our slow cultural degradation.
  - blululu 2y ago
    Y’all make fun of us for everything from our lousy patchwork health care system to sucking at hockey. Seems only fair to send a little flack back across what’s left of the border.
  - throwup238 2y ago
    You'll be fine as long as no one starts replacing the cheese curds with paneer.
bryanlarsen 2y ago
A significant fraction of those people would be dead if they didn't immigrate.
- naasking 2y ago
  Citation that a "significant fraction" of those who immigrated were facing certain death? Also, implicit in your post seems to be an assertion that the moral responsibility for their deaths would fall on us rather than the people causing the deadly circumstances in their home countries, and that we are thus we are obligated to help in this specific way. There are a lot of problems with this argument.

throwup238 2y ago

> Canada is also a highly multicultural country with 20% born elsewhere and a national grocer must target them to find success, Mr Singh said. Then why doesn’t Canada have a huge network of ethnic grocery stores tailored to more frugal immigrant communities? I assume it does and the issue is one of consumer education. They’re all over the US in every state with a decent immigrant population. Mexican, Persian, Armenian, Russian, Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese, Korean, Arabic, and so on - that’s just the ones off the top of my head that I shop at monthly. Chicken is usually cheaper at Costco and milk/eggs/cheese at Trader Joes, but all other meat and produce is significantly cheaper, on the order of 2-3x lower than the price at Costco/TJs. Their produce varies more based on whats in season and what their suppliers have the most of, but they also have crazy deals every week. My favorite this year was rebranded Sumo mandarins that sold for $0.33/lb which everyone else was selling for $2-3/lb (I was eating 3 pounds a day for a month).

schmidtleonard 2y ago
I understand that they are delicious but 3 pounds a day is a lot, throwup238.
- randomdata 2y ago
  > but 3 pounds a day is a lot Not when you're known as "throwup".
martythemaniak 2y ago
There are tons of small-to-medium sized grocery stores with a strong ethnic focus and a focus on prices. You don't hear about them because they one-offs and not a national chain.
asdasdsddd 2y ago
There's a lot of ethnic grocers. Although Loblaws owns the largest chinese one
davidjade 2y ago
And where were these rebranded Sumo's? We only saw Sumo's this year for $4-5/lb nearly everywhere we looked. Were these rebranded things really Sumo's or did they just look like Sumo's. I did see something that looked like a Sumo call a 'dekopon' citrus at major grocers on the east coast, but they were maybe $1/lb cheaper as best and not as good or large as one with a Sumo sticker. They were more tart and not as an intense flavor. It's my understanding that the variety has existed for a long time in Japan and Sumo is just one specific branded citrus sub-variety from California.

unethical_ban 2y ago

There is a subreddit for complaining about Loblaws. https://old.reddit.com/r/loblawsisoutofcontrol/ https://old.reddit.com/r/loblawsisoutofcontrol/

Vermeulen 2y ago

Blaming 'corporate greed' is a easy thing for politicians to do. It's then not their actions that are causing prices to go up. Easy to point at things like 'record profits' of Loblaws, without looking at if their margins have changed (they haven't). If you keep the same margins and have the amount of business with inflation then of course there are 'record profits'.

adamomada 2y ago
Their margins actually did go up but it’s kinda hilarious when you see it — they’re squeaking out ~3% these days while it was a razor thin 1.x% before. Yup that’s an extra buck fitty on your $100 of groceries

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infecto 2y ago

That comparison chart they made should be illegal. Even framing it with the pound its hard to fully read and compare each item.

Ajay-p 2y ago

For greater insight into how grocery stores are run in America, I highly recommend the gripping book "The Secret Life of Groceries: The Dark Miracle of the American Supermarket" by Benjamin Lorr. The author gets a job at Whole Foods and then works his way through the food chain, reporting every step of the way, and relating it back to what is seen and experienced at the store. Really excellent reporting IMO.

dblohm7 2y ago

I'm surprised the BBC left out the elephant in the room: Supply Management [1]. TL;DR Canada has highly protectionist dairy and poultry sectors that artificially constrict supply of dairy and poultry. You'll periodically read reports of dairy farmers intentionally dumping perfectly good milk [2] because they produced more than their allotted quota. Even worse, all the federal political parties are too cowardly to stop it; in fact, the House of Commons recently passed [3] a private member's bill that essentially prevents the Minister of Foreign Affairs from negotiating any trade agreement that would weaken the supply management regime. (As you can imagine, Canada often gets called out for its hypocrisy during trade negotiations.) The politicians are scared to anger dairy farmers, particularly the ones in Quebec. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_and_poultry_supply_management_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_and_poultry_supply_manag... [2] https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/dairy-covid-19-1.5528331 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/dairy-covid-19-1.5528331 [3] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/gift/eca53705d5e7568f5ed88c784a024289902cbf210bfcf084b29185c600b0a773/GMJ6H2EMDVBHXH35LD3KIJTXZE/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/gift/eca53705d5e7568f5ed88c7...

ThrowawayTestr 2y ago
I haven't seen the price of milk or eggs go up all that much but I've seen the price of soda and chips increase by more than 50% in the past few years. I'm fine with our farmers not having to compete with hormone infused milk.
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randomdata 2y ago
> The politicians are scared to anger dairy farmers, particularly the ones in Quebec. The Progressive Conservatives were never afraid of angering dairy farmers. They ran on the very platform of ending the supply management in the 90s (granted, it didn't secure them a win, obviously). And, indeed, the PCs who remained in the CPC ranks have shown that they continued to believe in it, sometimes quite vocally. It's interesting that the Reformers are such scaredy cats.