5 ms·

One of the humans who did the most for humankind. Being called names. Shame.

ceejayoz 2y ago
George Washington did a lot of important good, while being a slaveowner. Galileo was notorious for being a douche. The world is complex. I'm a huge SpaceX fan, and a big critic of Musk's handling of Twitter. It's OK to hold these opinions simultaneously.
- hagbard_c 2y ago
  Odd, I think Musk is doing quite well with 'Twitter'. It is a very good thing that the ideological censorship which the Ancienne Regime at Twitter was guilty of has been lifted, especially in the light of the oncoming elections in Europe/the US and the current mess in Brazil etc. It is clear as daylight that those who are ideologically aligned with the previous regime at Twitter are annoyed that their playground has been opened to 'the other side' but this is one of the few areas where diversity really matters: diversity of opinion. You don't have to like what the opposition says but you should allow them to speak, no matter whether you're on the 'progressive' or 'conservative' or 'libertarian' or whatever other side you can think of.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    > You don't have to like what the opposition says but you should allow them to speak... Then we're in a agreement that Musk's arbitrary bans (https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/04/elon-musk-twitter-still-banning-journalists https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/04/elon-musk-twitter-st... / https://theintercept.com/2022/11/29/elon-musk-twitter-andy-ngo-antifascist/ https://theintercept.com/2022/11/29/elon-musk-twitter-andy-n...) are bad. I'm glad!
    - hagbard_c 2y ago
      <soapbox> Musk is not perfect but compared to the way the previous leadership handled the ban hammer he's doing quite well. I hope he ends up leaving TwiXXer in capable hands who take freedom of expression seriously and who are on the level with regard to policies and supposed violations of such. Who do not allow themselves to be used by governments to circumvent their own laws with regard to the suppression of speech. Who follow the law of the land, not the feelings of a few noisy extremists. I'd rather have people like Musk focus on projects like SpaceX but I see it as a net positive that he wrested control of 'the public square' away from ideologues who had turned it into the 'Red Square'. May it end up like (my possibly idealised idea of) Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park where anyone can put down a soapbox, climb on it and say what's on his mind as long as he stays within the bounds set by law. If what he says makes sense he'll mostly get applause plus a few boos and jeers, it it doesn't he'll get pelted with rotten tomatoes. </soapbox>
dotnet00 2y ago
Most Musk, Bezos, Zuckerberg equivalents were similarly divisive and controversial figures while they were alive or active (say, Ford). That only went away when the people who experienced them aged out. Steve Jobs is a nice, more recent example, being just about old enough to remember his death, I know he was very much an asshole with many strongly held opinions most people would've disliked, but a current teenager is probably only aware that he was the visionary founder of Apple. Bill Gates is also an interesting example, he was notorious for being cutthroat back in his day, but since he has mostly just been doing charity stuff since retirement, that reputation is fading.

George Washington did a lot of important good, while being a slaveowner. Galileo was notorious for being a douche. The world is complex. I'm a huge SpaceX fan, and a big critic of Musk's handling of Twitter. It's OK to hold these opinions simultaneously.

hagbard_c 2y ago
Odd, I think Musk is doing quite well with 'Twitter'. It is a very good thing that the ideological censorship which the Ancienne Regime at Twitter was guilty of has been lifted, especially in the light of the oncoming elections in Europe/the US and the current mess in Brazil etc. It is clear as daylight that those who are ideologically aligned with the previous regime at Twitter are annoyed that their playground has been opened to 'the other side' but this is one of the few areas where diversity really matters: diversity of opinion. You don't have to like what the opposition says but you should allow them to speak, no matter whether you're on the 'progressive' or 'conservative' or 'libertarian' or whatever other side you can think of.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  > You don't have to like what the opposition says but you should allow them to speak... Then we're in a agreement that Musk's arbitrary bans (https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/04/elon-musk-twitter-still-banning-journalists https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/04/elon-musk-twitter-st... / https://theintercept.com/2022/11/29/elon-musk-twitter-andy-ngo-antifascist/ https://theintercept.com/2022/11/29/elon-musk-twitter-andy-n...) are bad. I'm glad!
  - hagbard_c 2y ago
    <soapbox> Musk is not perfect but compared to the way the previous leadership handled the ban hammer he's doing quite well. I hope he ends up leaving TwiXXer in capable hands who take freedom of expression seriously and who are on the level with regard to policies and supposed violations of such. Who do not allow themselves to be used by governments to circumvent their own laws with regard to the suppression of speech. Who follow the law of the land, not the feelings of a few noisy extremists. I'd rather have people like Musk focus on projects like SpaceX but I see it as a net positive that he wrested control of 'the public square' away from ideologues who had turned it into the 'Red Square'. May it end up like (my possibly idealised idea of) Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park where anyone can put down a soapbox, climb on it and say what's on his mind as long as he stays within the bounds set by law. If what he says makes sense he'll mostly get applause plus a few boos and jeers, it it doesn't he'll get pelted with rotten tomatoes. </soapbox>

dotnet00 2y ago

Most Musk, Bezos, Zuckerberg equivalents were similarly divisive and controversial figures while they were alive or active (say, Ford). That only went away when the people who experienced them aged out. Steve Jobs is a nice, more recent example, being just about old enough to remember his death, I know he was very much an asshole with many strongly held opinions most people would've disliked, but a current teenager is probably only aware that he was the visionary founder of Apple. Bill Gates is also an interesting example, he was notorious for being cutthroat back in his day, but since he has mostly just been doing charity stuff since retirement, that reputation is fading.