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From a holistic point of view new developers often bemoan Java being too large and complex to learn, which is the opposite of what it used to be (I started at J

From a holistic point of view new developers often bemoan Java being too large and complex to learn, which is the opposite of what it used to be (I started at JDK 1.0 in 1995). Little changes here and there are eroding a core value of the language imho, and those devs choose different easier languages to start with. Without new blood languages die. I am surprised Brian Goetz endorsed this (I've got his older Java book Concurrency in Practice) so can only assume there's a larger picture I don't see. As stated, I believe Java is "jumping the shark" when it should be making breaking changes (not just huge deprecations). Also I'm not sure why my parent comment has been downvoted for a unpopular view, it's a genuine concern and why I now prefer to use other simpler languages instead when not in a work context.

Pet_Ant 2y ago
I mean I feel like Java evolving has really eaten into Groovy. It used to offer so much more that Java 5, but over time it's value-add has diminished as Java has picked up features. It is essential for the language to stay relevant and not fracture as people pick different more productive languages.
- SillyUsername 2y ago
  I love Groovy and was disappointed it didn't get traction, I still use it for "dirty"* unit tests where I want to grab private variables and not have to bother with reflection libraries :D * dirty meaning quick and/or checking internal state instead of output
kaba0 2y ago
Java is still quite a small language, several-times smaller than C++ or C#. I really don’t feel Java being on that “slippery slope” at all, people like to talk about. Sure, it can’t really shrink, due to backwards compatibility and for the same reason it can’t always have the most elegant solution, but it really is doing pretty much the opposite of any other language of similar age — being as simple as possible, but not simpler.

Pet_Ant 2y ago

I mean I feel like Java evolving has really eaten into Groovy. It used to offer so much more that Java 5, but over time it's value-add has diminished as Java has picked up features. It is essential for the language to stay relevant and not fracture as people pick different more productive languages.

SillyUsername 2y ago
I love Groovy and was disappointed it didn't get traction, I still use it for "dirty"* unit tests where I want to grab private variables and not have to bother with reflection libraries :D * dirty meaning quick and/or checking internal state instead of output

kaba0 2y ago

Java is still quite a small language, several-times smaller than C++ or C#. I really don’t feel Java being on that “slippery slope” at all, people like to talk about. Sure, it can’t really shrink, due to backwards compatibility and for the same reason it can’t always have the most elegant solution, but it really is doing pretty much the opposite of any other language of similar age — being as simple as possible, but not simpler.