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> uhm, yes seriously if you are not from the US that is actually kinda sorta what it looks like […] Clearly, the context is within the U.S. Why use a straw man

> uhm, yes seriously if you are not from the US that is actually kinda sorta what it looks like […] Clearly, the context is within the U.S. Why use a straw man to respond to my question? I wouldn’t enter a topic about Canadians to talk about Brazilians. Very bizarre. (I’m very well aware that American politics is quite different from the rest of the world. E.g., a neoliberal like Hillary Clinton is considered a leftist in America, which wouldn’t fly in most of the rest of the world.)

dang 2y ago
Could you please stop posting flamebait and/or political-ideological battle comments? You've unfortunately been doing it a lot lately. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- jay-barronville 2y ago
  My contributions to this thread started here [0]. I made a rather simple comment there. The thread got more ideological as more folks commented. If other folks post comments that are rooted in their ideology, why am I being personally targeted for responding to them? (I don’t want to assume anything, so I’m asking this genuinely.) For the record, if, for whatever reason, you just don’t want me here, as much as I love this community, I’m happy to leave, because I’d rather do that than have my views silenced because they’re unpopular or be targeted like this for responding in kind to others who openly share their own views. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40591011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40591011
  - dang 2y ago
    That wasn't a simple comment—that was clearly a flamewar comment, guaranteed to produce more of the same and likely worse. You're not being targeted personally and we don't take ideological sides nor care what your (or anyone else's) views are. If other people are breaking the site guidelines too, and their posts don't look moderated, it doesn't follow that moderators have deemed it ok. That's a gigantic non sequitur. Far more likely is that we just didn't see it: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=likeliest%20explanation%20by%3Adang&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... > The thread got more ideological as more folks commented. In my experience, the feeling "other people just started behaving badly for reasons that had nothing to do with my post" is generally not very reliable. It does happen sometimes of course. But it's more likely that you (I don't mean you personally—I mean any of us in this position) are underestimating the degree of provocation in what you posted. Funnily enough I was just writing about this in a different context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40601722 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40601722.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - Kye 2y ago
      It reminds me of The Missing Missing Reasons: https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-mis... It's hard to learn to recognize one's own part in the way things are and set ego aside, but it's one of those essential growth milestones that makes everything better.
    - jay-barronville 2y ago
      > That wasn't a simple comment—that was clearly a flamewar comment, guaranteed to produce more of the same and likely worse. I’ve reread my initial comment [0] probably a couple dozen times (at least) trying to see why it’d be considered a flamewar comment and I just don’t see it. What am I missing? Is it me calling the text I quoted an understatement? Or is it the last part where I object to the consistent negative rhetoric re Elon I see on HN? I have a feeling it might be the latter, since it specifically calls out the community. Do you mind clarifying so I can understand? > You're not being targeted personally and we don't take ideological sides nor care what your (or anyone else's) views are. If other people are breaking the site guidelines too, and their posts don't look moderated, it doesn't follow that moderators have deemed it ok. You’re generally pretty fair from what I’ve seen (and also from communicating with you via email), so I believe you and I appreciate that. Thank you for making that clear though. > […] it's more likely that you (I don't mean you personally—I mean any of us in this position) are underestimating the degree of provocation in what you posted. Fair enough—I’ll keep that in mind moving forward. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40591011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40591011
      - dang 2y ago
        It was mostly this part: "I find it beyond unfortunate that so many in this community constantly feel the need to belittle Elon or downplay his accomplishments simply because they don’t like the guy, his politics, etc." When I read a sentence like this it breaks down something like the following: I find it beyond unfortunate - pejorative rhetoric so many in this community - "me vs. the mob" is a provocation trope (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20noble%20freethinker%20&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...) constantly feel the need - this is a putdown as well as an assumption about the inner state of the other to belittle Elon or downplay his accomplishments - more or less fine, except that "belittle" and "downplay" are pejoratives so it adds to the provocation simply because they don’t like the guy - another putdown and imputation of inner state to the other his politics, etc. - ups the ante at the end I know I'm exaggerating quite a bit! I'm sure these interpretations are not what you intended. But this is exactly the sort of exaggeration that takes place in the reader's mind, so if the reader happens to be one of the people who you are criticizing, there's no doubt that all these signals will pack quite a punch, even if it wasn't a punch you intended to land.

dang 2y ago

Could you please stop posting flamebait and/or political-ideological battle comments? You've unfortunately been doing it a lot lately. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

jay-barronville 2y ago
My contributions to this thread started here [0]. I made a rather simple comment there. The thread got more ideological as more folks commented. If other folks post comments that are rooted in their ideology, why am I being personally targeted for responding to them? (I don’t want to assume anything, so I’m asking this genuinely.) For the record, if, for whatever reason, you just don’t want me here, as much as I love this community, I’m happy to leave, because I’d rather do that than have my views silenced because they’re unpopular or be targeted like this for responding in kind to others who openly share their own views. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40591011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40591011
- dang 2y ago
  That wasn't a simple comment—that was clearly a flamewar comment, guaranteed to produce more of the same and likely worse. You're not being targeted personally and we don't take ideological sides nor care what your (or anyone else's) views are. If other people are breaking the site guidelines too, and their posts don't look moderated, it doesn't follow that moderators have deemed it ok. That's a gigantic non sequitur. Far more likely is that we just didn't see it: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=likeliest%20explanation%20by%3Adang&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... > The thread got more ideological as more folks commented. In my experience, the feeling "other people just started behaving badly for reasons that had nothing to do with my post" is generally not very reliable. It does happen sometimes of course. But it's more likely that you (I don't mean you personally—I mean any of us in this position) are underestimating the degree of provocation in what you posted. Funnily enough I was just writing about this in a different context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40601722 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40601722.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Kye 2y ago
    It reminds me of The Missing Missing Reasons: https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-mis... It's hard to learn to recognize one's own part in the way things are and set ego aside, but it's one of those essential growth milestones that makes everything better.
  - jay-barronville 2y ago
    > That wasn't a simple comment—that was clearly a flamewar comment, guaranteed to produce more of the same and likely worse. I’ve reread my initial comment [0] probably a couple dozen times (at least) trying to see why it’d be considered a flamewar comment and I just don’t see it. What am I missing? Is it me calling the text I quoted an understatement? Or is it the last part where I object to the consistent negative rhetoric re Elon I see on HN? I have a feeling it might be the latter, since it specifically calls out the community. Do you mind clarifying so I can understand? > You're not being targeted personally and we don't take ideological sides nor care what your (or anyone else's) views are. If other people are breaking the site guidelines too, and their posts don't look moderated, it doesn't follow that moderators have deemed it ok. You’re generally pretty fair from what I’ve seen (and also from communicating with you via email), so I believe you and I appreciate that. Thank you for making that clear though. > […] it's more likely that you (I don't mean you personally—I mean any of us in this position) are underestimating the degree of provocation in what you posted. Fair enough—I’ll keep that in mind moving forward. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40591011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40591011
    - dang 2y ago
      It was mostly this part: "I find it beyond unfortunate that so many in this community constantly feel the need to belittle Elon or downplay his accomplishments simply because they don’t like the guy, his politics, etc." When I read a sentence like this it breaks down something like the following: I find it beyond unfortunate - pejorative rhetoric so many in this community - "me vs. the mob" is a provocation trope (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20noble%20freethinker%20&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...) constantly feel the need - this is a putdown as well as an assumption about the inner state of the other to belittle Elon or downplay his accomplishments - more or less fine, except that "belittle" and "downplay" are pejoratives so it adds to the provocation simply because they don’t like the guy - another putdown and imputation of inner state to the other his politics, etc. - ups the ante at the end I know I'm exaggerating quite a bit! I'm sure these interpretations are not what you intended. But this is exactly the sort of exaggeration that takes place in the reader's mind, so if the reader happens to be one of the people who you are criticizing, there's no doubt that all these signals will pack quite a punch, even if it wasn't a punch you intended to land.