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Larry Ellison Owns 98% of Lanai Island, Hawaii
- EdwardDiego 2y agoAmerican colonialism is writ large - and still continuing - in the islands of Hawaii. It's sad for a country that proclaims itself to be the land of the free with a healthy respect for property rights. But then, I guess Hawaiians and Native Americans (and Filipinos) could compare notes on this one. Oh, and Guam, Puerto Rico, the Marshall Islands, American Samoa, and I'm pretty sure I'm missing a fair few more.
- cinntaile 2y ago> It's sad for a country that proclaims itself to be the land of the free with a healthy respect for property rights. I think we can safely assume he bought the land so the property rights are respected.
- EdwardDiego 2y agoSadly just not the property rights of the original owners.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- blackhawkC17 2y ago[flagged]
- dkobia 2y agoThe British could have said exactly the same of any of their colonies. Who knows, Hawaii could have been as prosperous as Fiji or even more given the chance.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- EdwardDiego 2y agoI would love to see you argue this to a Hawaiian in person. I suspect a fair few of them very much disagree that their nation being overthrown at the behest of American capitalists who then took most of their land via coercion and deception was in their best interests. I feel you should read up on the history of Hawaii some more my friend. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1887_Constitution_of_the_Hawaiian_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1887_Constitution_of_the_Hawai... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_1893_Constitution_of_the_Hawaiian_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_1893_Constitution_of_... Spoilers - when a constitution written by migrants to your country is called the "Bayonet Constitution" because it was passed under threat of violence, that's colonialism.
- defrost 2y agoTo which you might add In Hawaiʻi, Plantation Tourism Tastes Like Pineapple https://edgeeffects.net/dole-pineapple-plantation/ https://edgeeffects.net/dole-pineapple-plantation/ Gradually, the social and cultural imperialism that the missionaries brought to the islands developed into the exploitative commercial power that overthrew the Hawaiian monarchy in 1893. One such businessman was Sanford B. Dole, grandson of Daniel Dole and cousin of James Dole, who, despite President Grover Cleveland’s declaration of the overthrow an act of war and recommendation that the provisional government step down, was declared the President of the Republic of Hawaiʻi on July 4, 1894. etc.
- blackhawkC17 2y ago[flagged]
- EdwardDiego 2y ago> I will do that without hesitation if given the opportunity. I don't believe you at all. I think you talk a big talk on the Internet but lack the courage of your convictions in real life. But hey, prove me wrong, book a ticket, post a video online of you talking to a member of one of these organisations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_sovereignty_movement#Sovereignty_and_cultural_rights_organizations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_sovereignty_movement#... Some details on there you can use to go do so "without hesitation." I'm sure you'll post your video soon. Word of advice though - read a history book before you do, ignorance is a massive barrier to understanding.
- frugalmail 2y agoWhat an edgy comment /s
- EdwardDiego 2y agoNot being edgy, just sad at how America doesn't even acknowledge its colonial history while celebrating their liberation from an oppressive foreign power every July. It's rather schizophrenic.
- 0dayz 2y agoYou'll then get depression when you look into European history in the European continent.
- EdwardDiego 2y agoI'm from New Zealand, I don't need to look that far. We have far too many plonkers who like to claim that "Without colonisation, Māori would still be stone age cannibals" which ignores literally all of the recorded history of Māori interactions with Europeans. (When Captain Cook turned up to "discover" New Zealand, he was surprised that the Māori he met wanted to trade food / cloth / pounamu for iron, especially nails, they were great for bird trapping and fishing hooks.) Or the ol classic "Give us back the blankets and KFC, and we'll give you back your land" attempt at a joke.
- Amezarak 2y agoIt’s been a while since I read Cook, and I’ve read lots of similar literature, but can you point me to where exactly he is surprised by wanting to trade for metal? It seems more surprising he’d be surprised since natives everywhere had always wanted to trade for metals, guns, horses, etc. There’s no reason to believe that Māori cultural practices like cannibalism would have changed because they had interest in metals, either way, the things are totally orthogonal; but surely, as you say, the material culture would have changed through trade if nothing else. In general, I think we need to get rid of the word “indigenous” altogether and find some other way to talk about situations like this. Nobody rose up out of the dirt, human migration and displacement has been a continual fact of human existence. Very often the people claimed to be “first” and therefore to have special privilege we have good reason to believe were not - and often “indigenous” peoples are shutting down archeological research because it contradicts their narratives. This is obviously bad for science, and it’s happened because we’ve privileged this narrative of colonials vs indigenous peoples rather than waves of migrations. The Māori are actually a rare example where the current evidence is they were “first”, but we also can’t expect any evidence that may be discovered to be taken seriously because of the political implications. Either way, I don’t believe and don’t accept that planting the Māori flag in the 1300s makes New Zealand theirs. It’s not. Current debates are simply the same old story of war and conquest, just pursued by other means since obviously the military route is unavailable to the modern Māori. That is, it’s simply the rationalization for a power struggle. The actual arguments are pontless: you can usually always go further back (eg, in America, why would we restore the Rushmore lands to the Lakota, who claim it, but who had very recently taken it by force?), and there is no longer any way to correct perceived injustices: all the “victims” are long dead and so are the “perpetrators” and in all cases there’s been intermixing in the time since and other immigrations. You’d simply be punishing people who had nothing to do with it and privileging people arbitrarily.
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- tomalbrc 2y agoDon't forget the oh-so-great Gates Foundation...
- belter 2y agoYou mean Bill-I-Pledge-All-My-Money? "Bill Gates is the biggest private owner of farmland in the United States. Why?" - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/05/bill-gates-climate-crisis-farmland https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/05/bill-g...
- xyzzy4747 2y agoDon't you think someone who created something very valuable, should be able in a free market to purchase land from people who want to sell it?
- EdwardDiego 2y agoDo you think it was actually a free market that the land was originally acquired in?
- bart_spoon 2y agoCan you think of a single location on Earth where the land was originally claimed in a free market?
- rshah_45 2y agoYou are proving their point, that there is no free market.
- sickofparadox 2y agoUnfortunately, we cannot all be like the Greeks - who sprouted from the ground after the gods sowed the teeth of dragons into the earth.
- kelseyfrog 2y agoAre we allowed to hold ideals? Are we allowed to take steps toward enacting those ideals?
- sickofparadox 2y agoI don't begrudge anyone their ideals, but I will certainly comment on them if I find them to be silly or hypocritical.
- NoThisIsMe 2y agoSad but not surprising. [Private] property is theft, as they say.
- jeffwask 2y agoI don't think Colonialism is the correct descriptor these days for the global Oligarch class buying up all the land future generations would be able to use and locking it away. This isn't just an American problem and it's not just idyllic islands that are being locked up. It's the establishment of a new form of Feudalism.
- kjkjadksj 2y agoIts not any different than what happens in mainland US too. Rich people buying huge tracts of land they seldom visit is nothing new.
- dumdumdumdum 2y ago> It's sad for a country that proclaims itself to be the land of the free with a healthy respect for property rights. We respected property so much we even counted them as 3/5ths of a person.
- Zanni 2y agoThe island of Ni'ihau (Hawaii) is also privately owned: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau
- freilanzer 2y agoThat island has an interesting history. I expected the worst, but the owner seems to take great care.
- eaenki 2y agopaid in 1864 €200k adjusted for inflation now prolly worth a billion damn that’s a x5000 return
- bitxbitxbitcoin 2y agoIgnoring inflation in such calculations is part of how the island owners pull one over on the non island owners.
- Zanni 2y agoReally difficult to estimate it's worth since the owners are determined never to sell or develop. If value can never be realized, is it still value?
- toomuchtodo 2y agoIt’s priceless. Good humans if they’ve locked it up in perpetuity.
- Havoc 2y agoThe remaining 2% must really be vexing
- browningstreet 2y agoHe’s 79 too. Still motivated it seems.
- akudha 2y agoHe has money, so he bought it. Free market, capitalism etc etc, I get that part. That said, why does one man need 140 sq miles of land? Unless it is being used for agriculture or some other net benefit to society, doesn’t this sound grotesque?
- kjkjadksj 2y agoI have visited lanai and I feel its mostly to protect it from development. Theres a little town more inland and a four seasons but he could have gone wild by now if that were the angle.