5 ms·

There is no such "okupas problem" in Spain. If someone enter your dwelling (don't really know if is the correct term in English. In Spanish the house where you

by jmcb 2y ago

There is no such "okupas problem" in Spain. If someone enter your dwelling (don't really know if is the correct term in English. In Spanish the house where you actually live is called "morada"), you can call the police and they will evict whoever is in the house in less than 24 hours. Other topic is holiday residences; those are not dwelling ("morada") so, in Spain, the right to have a dwelling is on the top of private property so yes, it's quite difficult to evict people who entered the house in this scenario. The ones who really have the problem are the people who buy houses for the summer.

eduardo_f 2y ago
I invest in real estate in Spain and this is not true.
- tsimionescu 2y ago
  What part of it?
- KaiserPro 2y ago
  I'm also curious, which part is incorrect? I would have thought there is a clear distinction between owner occupied housing and empty property?
- Malcolmlisk 2y ago
  This is completely true, so if you work as a real estate investor, you need to check your knowledge and start studying or stop lying. If you try to squat (okupar) the house where someone lives, you'll be evicted just when the police arrives to your house. And you'll get a criminal sanction (allanamiento de morada). The problem comes when your third house is occupied by someone, since this is not where you live, then you'll have a real problem since they can say they are living there right now, and that's when the time dilatation comes. This "problem" is just for people with a lot of houses, rentist, that are part of the problem. Or the banks and vulture funds, who had most of the houses and flats in spain. And the squatting problem in spain is ridiculous small. THe percentage over the poblation is ridiculous. This that, in this article, don't mention at all.
  - rozularen 2y ago
    > This "problem" is just for people with a lot of houses, rentist, that are part of the problem. Or the banks and vulture funds, who had most of the houses and flats in spain. And the squatting problem in spain is ridiculous small. THe percentage over the poblation is ridiculous. This that, in this article, don't mention at all. This is a problem that *anyone* with more than 1 property might suffer. FTFY It's unbelievable the way some people stretch it to defend squatters. If it's not yours, you should not take it. Full pause.
    - diggan 2y ago
      > This is a problem that anyone with more than 1 property might suffer. FTFY Yes, "lots" = more than one Spain is still struggling with higher demand than supply, so people end up homeless. At the same time, Spain struggles with properties in high-demand areas being empty because the owner doesn't want to rent or sell it, so no one uses it at all. Finally, we're getting "upkeep taxes" added to those places, so they can either be utilized, or the owner "penalized" of sorts. But up until now, there wasn't anything like that, so the alternative for many is to hole up in a empty building no one cares about, or live on the street. And obviously, many take the first choice. It's hard for me to blame them when the other choice is living on the streets.
      - rozularen 2y ago
        there's a slight difference between one, a couple, a few, several and "lots". It's one of the first things you learn in English. If I ran out of money it shouldn't be okay for me to rob someone's else money. The same way if I can't afford a house house I shouldn't squat a house. If one can't afford a house, he or she should: - complain about the government house development policies - search for social housing if available - get a better job - not squat someone's else house - not have children and use them to justify squatting, which is very common - etc
  - curtisblaine 2y ago
    > This "problem" is just for people with a lot of houses, rentist, that are part of the problem. 1) Is it illegal to have more than one house in Spain? 2) Do you pay proportionally more tax if you own more than one house in Spain?
- ThinkBeat 2y ago
  The description given is very similar to what I myself have seen. What part are you saying is not true and if so what area?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
luluspa 2y ago
"the right to have a dwelling is on the top of private property so yes, it's quite difficult to evict people who entered the house in this scenario" So, there is an 'okupas problem'. You could have saved the whole first paragraph.
- lomase 2y ago
  Is a feature, not a bug.
  - hhf4433 2y ago
    A commie becomes a raging capitalist the moment someone occupies their second residence. I know because it happened in my family.
ruiseal 2y ago
If you own a second property and decide to rent it out and your tenant decides to stop paying rent you're fucked. Until they get an eviction notice from a court, which can take more than a year, you have to keep paying utilities for them. Nor can you change the locks. If the okupa has children you're even more fucked. Considering how many desokupa services exist I'd say it's a real problem.
- diggan 2y ago
  > Considering how many desokupa services exist I'd say it's a real problem. How many does exists? I've only heard of one (literally called "Desokupa"), but you're saying there are many companies offering this, not just local chapters of the major one? Tried searching but could only find that one, and I couldn't find any sources on the number of companies existing offering this service either.
  - ruiseal 2y ago
    As they operate in a gray zone, they are generally not advertised. But even cops will give you numbers or info on how to join WhatsApp groups where you can hire someone. Despite all the publicity, I've never heard of anyone using the company you referenced. At least not in Andalucía.
- passwordle 2y ago
  >Considering how many desokupa services exist I'd say it's a real problem. None of what you said sounds like a problem. What is the problem? It sounds like a policy to ensure dwellings, which are obviously a scarce resource in those areas have actual people living in them. That is kind of their point. Of course it would be beneficial to have a better legal framework to ensure housing security and building maintenance.
  - ruiseal 2y ago
    The underlying problem is that it violates the owner's property rights. Whether they rent or or leave unoccupied their property, even if it's scarce, is their business. And not letting the owner manage their property as they see fit causes all sorts of wider problems. I'm assuming from reading your other comments you're not going to be sympathetic to this argument so let me give you two anecdotal incidents. The first is about a woman who is 70 years old. She lives off a state pension which is supplemented by a small rental income from a three bedroom apartment she owns. The apartment is quite old, and needs refurbishment, so she can only generally rent it to students or non-professionals who pay a modest rent. After maintenance costs, property tax, and building management fees she doesn't get much but enough so she doesn't have to rely on her children. One day, one of the tenants stopped paying rent. Rather than asking him to leave immediately she gave him some extra time to get the rent. Rather than do this, he decided he would do an occupation. So first he terrorized the other tenants so they left and then proceeded to occupy the entire apartment, including turning one bedroom into a gym. Police were called quite a few times but they said they couldn't do anything until they received a court order. So for a year and a half, this guy lived there rent free with water and electricity being paid for as well (you can cut off internet as it's not deemed essential). When the court order finally came through the police didn't even bother showing up and it was the locksmith who chased the guy out. He hasn't faced any consequences and could continue to do this again and again. As for the owner, she had to take out loans (some with 20% interest) cover the costs this guy incurred. She, who is Spanish, will never rent out to Spanish people again. The second is about a taxi driver in his late 40s. After a long period of saving he managed to save enough for a deposit to get a mortgage on a costal apartment that his family would use in the summers and rent the rest of the time. While he could have just listed it on Airbnb, he decided to rent it out to a woman with children on a long-term basis (non-summer months). So she moves in and when he comes a few days later to collect the first month's rent he's informed that she won't be paying rent and because of the children it's going to be impossible to kick her out. He tries to negotiate with her over a few months, including talking to the town hall to get some some rent stipend, all to no avail. Eventually, he had to use desokupa services to get her out but not before this woman had caused significant property damage. He also went into debt and his marriage almost failed because of the stress and financial strain. Once he finishes repairing all the damage (which he has to do himself as he can't afford to pay someone else) he will rent it out again but only through Airbnb to foreigners. So this policy has ensured that honest people, renters and landlords, get punished by dishonest people who won't see any consequences either.

by jmcb 2y ago

eduardo_f 2y ago

I invest in real estate in Spain and this is not true.

tsimionescu 2y ago
What part of it?
KaiserPro 2y ago
I'm also curious, which part is incorrect? I would have thought there is a clear distinction between owner occupied housing and empty property?
Malcolmlisk 2y ago
This is completely true, so if you work as a real estate investor, you need to check your knowledge and start studying or stop lying. If you try to squat (okupar) the house where someone lives, you'll be evicted just when the police arrives to your house. And you'll get a criminal sanction (allanamiento de morada). The problem comes when your third house is occupied by someone, since this is not where you live, then you'll have a real problem since they can say they are living there right now, and that's when the time dilatation comes. This "problem" is just for people with a lot of houses, rentist, that are part of the problem. Or the banks and vulture funds, who had most of the houses and flats in spain. And the squatting problem in spain is ridiculous small. THe percentage over the poblation is ridiculous. This that, in this article, don't mention at all.
- rozularen 2y ago
  > This "problem" is just for people with a lot of houses, rentist, that are part of the problem. Or the banks and vulture funds, who had most of the houses and flats in spain. And the squatting problem in spain is ridiculous small. THe percentage over the poblation is ridiculous. This that, in this article, don't mention at all. This is a problem that *anyone* with more than 1 property might suffer. FTFY It's unbelievable the way some people stretch it to defend squatters. If it's not yours, you should not take it. Full pause.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > This is a problem that anyone with more than 1 property might suffer. FTFY Yes, "lots" = more than one Spain is still struggling with higher demand than supply, so people end up homeless. At the same time, Spain struggles with properties in high-demand areas being empty because the owner doesn't want to rent or sell it, so no one uses it at all. Finally, we're getting "upkeep taxes" added to those places, so they can either be utilized, or the owner "penalized" of sorts. But up until now, there wasn't anything like that, so the alternative for many is to hole up in a empty building no one cares about, or live on the street. And obviously, many take the first choice. It's hard for me to blame them when the other choice is living on the streets.
    - rozularen 2y ago
      there's a slight difference between one, a couple, a few, several and "lots". It's one of the first things you learn in English. If I ran out of money it shouldn't be okay for me to rob someone's else money. The same way if I can't afford a house house I shouldn't squat a house. If one can't afford a house, he or she should: - complain about the government house development policies - search for social housing if available - get a better job - not squat someone's else house - not have children and use them to justify squatting, which is very common - etc
- curtisblaine 2y ago
  > This "problem" is just for people with a lot of houses, rentist, that are part of the problem. 1) Is it illegal to have more than one house in Spain? 2) Do you pay proportionally more tax if you own more than one house in Spain?
ThinkBeat 2y ago
The description given is very similar to what I myself have seen. What part are you saying is not true and if so what area?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

luluspa 2y ago

"the right to have a dwelling is on the top of private property so yes, it's quite difficult to evict people who entered the house in this scenario" So, there is an 'okupas problem'. You could have saved the whole first paragraph.

lomase 2y ago
Is a feature, not a bug.
- hhf4433 2y ago
  A commie becomes a raging capitalist the moment someone occupies their second residence. I know because it happened in my family.

ruiseal 2y ago

If you own a second property and decide to rent it out and your tenant decides to stop paying rent you're fucked. Until they get an eviction notice from a court, which can take more than a year, you have to keep paying utilities for them. Nor can you change the locks. If the okupa has children you're even more fucked. Considering how many desokupa services exist I'd say it's a real problem.

diggan 2y ago
> Considering how many desokupa services exist I'd say it's a real problem. How many does exists? I've only heard of one (literally called "Desokupa"), but you're saying there are many companies offering this, not just local chapters of the major one? Tried searching but could only find that one, and I couldn't find any sources on the number of companies existing offering this service either.
- ruiseal 2y ago
  As they operate in a gray zone, they are generally not advertised. But even cops will give you numbers or info on how to join WhatsApp groups where you can hire someone. Despite all the publicity, I've never heard of anyone using the company you referenced. At least not in Andalucía.
passwordle 2y ago
>Considering how many desokupa services exist I'd say it's a real problem. None of what you said sounds like a problem. What is the problem? It sounds like a policy to ensure dwellings, which are obviously a scarce resource in those areas have actual people living in them. That is kind of their point. Of course it would be beneficial to have a better legal framework to ensure housing security and building maintenance.
- ruiseal 2y ago
  The underlying problem is that it violates the owner's property rights. Whether they rent or or leave unoccupied their property, even if it's scarce, is their business. And not letting the owner manage their property as they see fit causes all sorts of wider problems. I'm assuming from reading your other comments you're not going to be sympathetic to this argument so let me give you two anecdotal incidents. The first is about a woman who is 70 years old. She lives off a state pension which is supplemented by a small rental income from a three bedroom apartment she owns. The apartment is quite old, and needs refurbishment, so she can only generally rent it to students or non-professionals who pay a modest rent. After maintenance costs, property tax, and building management fees she doesn't get much but enough so she doesn't have to rely on her children. One day, one of the tenants stopped paying rent. Rather than asking him to leave immediately she gave him some extra time to get the rent. Rather than do this, he decided he would do an occupation. So first he terrorized the other tenants so they left and then proceeded to occupy the entire apartment, including turning one bedroom into a gym. Police were called quite a few times but they said they couldn't do anything until they received a court order. So for a year and a half, this guy lived there rent free with water and electricity being paid for as well (you can cut off internet as it's not deemed essential). When the court order finally came through the police didn't even bother showing up and it was the locksmith who chased the guy out. He hasn't faced any consequences and could continue to do this again and again. As for the owner, she had to take out loans (some with 20% interest) cover the costs this guy incurred. She, who is Spanish, will never rent out to Spanish people again. The second is about a taxi driver in his late 40s. After a long period of saving he managed to save enough for a deposit to get a mortgage on a costal apartment that his family would use in the summers and rent the rest of the time. While he could have just listed it on Airbnb, he decided to rent it out to a woman with children on a long-term basis (non-summer months). So she moves in and when he comes a few days later to collect the first month's rent he's informed that she won't be paying rent and because of the children it's going to be impossible to kick her out. He tries to negotiate with her over a few months, including talking to the town hall to get some some rent stipend, all to no avail. Eventually, he had to use desokupa services to get her out but not before this woman had caused significant property damage. He also went into debt and his marriage almost failed because of the stress and financial strain. Once he finishes repairing all the damage (which he has to do himself as he can't afford to pay someone else) he will rent it out again but only through Airbnb to foreigners. So this policy has ensured that honest people, renters and landlords, get punished by dishonest people who won't see any consequences either.