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I was born and raised in the US, so of course this seems upsetting and offensive to read. BUT, as humiliating and degrading as the treatment of these girls may

I was born and raised in the US, so of course this seems upsetting and offensive to read. BUT, as humiliating and degrading as the treatment of these girls may sound to western ears, you have to pull back and see that there is a larger picture and that these conditions were created in a context of constant threat of serious violence from all sides. This is NOTHING like an employer asking you to log into your FB account. This is about a country preventing the murder of its citizens. Forcing you to expose all your potential secrets sends a pretty strong deterrent message to anyone who would try. Being extremely invasive at the airports and doing serious screening and interrogation is how Israel remains a relatively safe place to live for its citizens and guests. As the woman from the embassy pointed out, there are a lot of things wrong with a lot of systems. At least this one was kind enough to allow a phone call and to quickly arrange safe passage home.

dalke 14y ago
".. may sound to western ears" Ahh, interesting. So if we pull back further and look at the even larger picture, I see that you disagree with the fundamental reasons for why at least some in the US support Israel in the Middle East. Quoting from the "Friends of Israel" (I could find similar quotes from many other organizations): "Israel is a Western country. With a liberal democratic political system operating under the rule of law, a flourishing market economy producing technological innovation to the benefit of the wider world, and a population as educated and cultured as anywhere in Europe or North America Israel is a normal Western country with a right to be treated as such in the community of nations." Why do you say that Israel is not a western country?
- ari_ 14y ago
  Israel is not exactly a western country. It's a mostly parliamentary democracy, with military rule in the areas of Judea and Samaria. In addition, the law (even inside the 1948 armistice line), is patchwork of Ottoman, British and Israeli law, with many rules still being enforced that were originally promulgated by the British Mandate. Finally, the country was founded mostly by eastern europeans with a strong socialist ethic, and doesn't have the same genetic code that democracy in the USA has. So for example: You can be detained indefinitely without habeas corpus inside Judea and Samaria, and it's a little bit more complicated in the rest of Israel (if you read hebrew this article gives a good overview http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%9E%D7%A2%D7%A6%D7%A8_%D7%9E%D7%A0%D7%94%D7%9C%D7%99 http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%9E%D7%A2%D7%A6%D7%A8_%D7%9E...)
nikcub 14y ago
good for you, pretty rare to find somebody today who would defend a policy where visiting a country entails a loss of freedom and privacy.

dalke 14y ago

".. may sound to western ears" Ahh, interesting. So if we pull back further and look at the even larger picture, I see that you disagree with the fundamental reasons for why at least some in the US support Israel in the Middle East. Quoting from the "Friends of Israel" (I could find similar quotes from many other organizations): "Israel is a Western country. With a liberal democratic political system operating under the rule of law, a flourishing market economy producing technological innovation to the benefit of the wider world, and a population as educated and cultured as anywhere in Europe or North America Israel is a normal Western country with a right to be treated as such in the community of nations." Why do you say that Israel is not a western country?

ari_ 14y ago
Israel is not exactly a western country. It's a mostly parliamentary democracy, with military rule in the areas of Judea and Samaria. In addition, the law (even inside the 1948 armistice line), is patchwork of Ottoman, British and Israeli law, with many rules still being enforced that were originally promulgated by the British Mandate. Finally, the country was founded mostly by eastern europeans with a strong socialist ethic, and doesn't have the same genetic code that democracy in the USA has. So for example: You can be detained indefinitely without habeas corpus inside Judea and Samaria, and it's a little bit more complicated in the rest of Israel (if you read hebrew this article gives a good overview http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%9E%D7%A2%D7%A6%D7%A8_%D7%9E%D7%A0%D7%94%D7%9C%D7%99 http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%9E%D7%A2%D7%A6%D7%A8_%D7%9E...)

nikcub 14y ago

good for you, pretty rare to find somebody today who would defend a policy where visiting a country entails a loss of freedom and privacy.