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Can we talk for a moment about the beef supply? Bird flu has now been found in both meat and dairy. The only guidance given so far by CDC is to cook meat to 160

Can we talk for a moment about the beef supply? Bird flu has now been found in both meat and dairy. The only guidance given so far by CDC is to cook meat to 160 deg. Well done. Let's put aside for a moment what that means about rare steaks... What about the millions of workers who cook burgers and handle large amounts of raw meat on a daily basis, then rub their eyes or noses? These are probably thousands of daily opportunities for the virus to jump species and attack human lung cells. Compared to the chances of infection followed by human-to-human mutation in a small rural community where someone is exposed to sick birds and becomes a dead-end case, we are entering territory where the odds of that deadly mutation are orders of magnitude higher, and compounding daily. I said a month ago that June 15th will be day zero for this to enter public consciousness with a sustained human chain of transmission and high mortality. I'm still standing by that date give or take a week.

ssl-3 2y ago
> Can we talk for a moment about the beef supply? Bird flu has now been found in both meat and dairy. The only guidance given so far by CDC is to cook meat to 160 deg. Well done. Let's put aside for a moment what that means about rare steaks... We can start by talking about the fact that there seems to be no specific guidance from the CDC or USDA that suggests cooking steaks to 160F is necessary to kill bird flu, or that generally suggests this practice of cooking steaks to well-done. In fact, a report on a very recent USDA FSIS study states the following about some intentionally-inoculated ground beef patties: "There was no virus present in the burgers cooked to 145 (medium) or 160 (well done) degrees, which is FSIS’ recommended cooking temperature. Even cooking burgers to 120 (rare) degrees, which is well below the recommended temperature, substantially inactivated the virus." https://www.aphis.usda.gov/livestock-poultry-disease/avian/avian-influenza/hpai-detections/livestock/h5n1-beef-safety-studies https://www.aphis.usda.gov/livestock-poultry-disease/avian/a... > What about the millions of workers who cook burgers and handle large amounts of raw meat on a daily basis, then rub their eyes or noses? These are probably thousands of daily opportunities for the virus to jump species and attack human lung cells. I'm just gonna leave this here: https://www.osha.gov/meatpacking/hazards-solutions https://www.osha.gov/meatpacking/hazards-solutions
- noduerme 2y ago
  Eh, here's the not-so-nice way of saying the same thing: >> When the virus-laden beef patties were cooked to 120°F degrees (rare), however, the tests found evidence of the virus, but at much reduced levels [0] Sorry, to your point about handling... if this is prevalent in fat and muscle tissue of otherwise healthy cattle then it is totally unlike pathogens introduced during slaughter, packing, grinding or food prep handling. Do you understand what I mean? Prior to this, other than prion diseases, pathogens inside muscle tissue basically did not exist in the modern beef meat supply. The only pathogens were introduced onto the outer surface during slaughter or handling. Cut away the outside and don't put it through a grinder and you can eat any piece of beef from a US supermarket raw. Up until now. Now we're talking about the interior volume of everything being loaded with a live virus. That drastically increases risk in handling and consumption. [0] https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/avian-influenza-bird-flu/usda-experiments-suggest-h5n1-not-viable-properly-cooked-ground-beef https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/avian-influenza-bird-flu/usda-exp...
  - ssl-3 2y ago
    Neat. I see words. None of those words support the initial claim that the CDC has issued guidance to cook steaks to 160F, which is a claim that at this point I can only believe to be a fabrication that was made in bad faith. I do not wish to spend any time at all determining which of your other claims may also be fabricated.
    - DoodahMan 2y ago
      > None of those words support the initial claim that the CDC has issued guidance to cook steaks to 160F, which is a claim that at this point I can only believe to be a fabrication that was made in bad faith. it was not the CDC but the USDA [0]: > Bird flu virus particles were found in beef tissue taken from one dairy cow sent to be slaughtered for meat, and meat from the animal did not enter the food supply, USDA said last month. > The agency has reported that no viral particles were found in samples of ground beef collected at retail stores, and that no bird flu virus was found after cooking ground beef to medium to well done, after it was injected with a virus surrogate as part of an experiment. day by day, imo, this virus is inching closer to humans. recently house mice were found to be infected [1]. it's becoming a bit reminiscent of late 2019. [0] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/cows-infected-with-bird-flu-have-died-five-us-states-2024-06-06/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/cows-infected-with-bird-flu... [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/why-the-discovery-of-h5n1-bird-flu-in-mice-is-so-alarming/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-diseas...

ssl-3 2y ago

> Can we talk for a moment about the beef supply? Bird flu has now been found in both meat and dairy. The only guidance given so far by CDC is to cook meat to 160 deg. Well done. Let's put aside for a moment what that means about rare steaks... We can start by talking about the fact that there seems to be no specific guidance from the CDC or USDA that suggests cooking steaks to 160F is necessary to kill bird flu, or that generally suggests this practice of cooking steaks to well-done. In fact, a report on a very recent USDA FSIS study states the following about some intentionally-inoculated ground beef patties: "There was no virus present in the burgers cooked to 145 (medium) or 160 (well done) degrees, which is FSIS’ recommended cooking temperature. Even cooking burgers to 120 (rare) degrees, which is well below the recommended temperature, substantially inactivated the virus." https://www.aphis.usda.gov/livestock-poultry-disease/avian/avian-influenza/hpai-detections/livestock/h5n1-beef-safety-studies https://www.aphis.usda.gov/livestock-poultry-disease/avian/a... > What about the millions of workers who cook burgers and handle large amounts of raw meat on a daily basis, then rub their eyes or noses? These are probably thousands of daily opportunities for the virus to jump species and attack human lung cells. I'm just gonna leave this here: https://www.osha.gov/meatpacking/hazards-solutions https://www.osha.gov/meatpacking/hazards-solutions

noduerme 2y ago
Eh, here's the not-so-nice way of saying the same thing: >> When the virus-laden beef patties were cooked to 120°F degrees (rare), however, the tests found evidence of the virus, but at much reduced levels [0] Sorry, to your point about handling... if this is prevalent in fat and muscle tissue of otherwise healthy cattle then it is totally unlike pathogens introduced during slaughter, packing, grinding or food prep handling. Do you understand what I mean? Prior to this, other than prion diseases, pathogens inside muscle tissue basically did not exist in the modern beef meat supply. The only pathogens were introduced onto the outer surface during slaughter or handling. Cut away the outside and don't put it through a grinder and you can eat any piece of beef from a US supermarket raw. Up until now. Now we're talking about the interior volume of everything being loaded with a live virus. That drastically increases risk in handling and consumption. [0] https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/avian-influenza-bird-flu/usda-experiments-suggest-h5n1-not-viable-properly-cooked-ground-beef https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/avian-influenza-bird-flu/usda-exp...
- ssl-3 2y ago
  Neat. I see words. None of those words support the initial claim that the CDC has issued guidance to cook steaks to 160F, which is a claim that at this point I can only believe to be a fabrication that was made in bad faith. I do not wish to spend any time at all determining which of your other claims may also be fabricated.
  - DoodahMan 2y ago
    > None of those words support the initial claim that the CDC has issued guidance to cook steaks to 160F, which is a claim that at this point I can only believe to be a fabrication that was made in bad faith. it was not the CDC but the USDA [0]: > Bird flu virus particles were found in beef tissue taken from one dairy cow sent to be slaughtered for meat, and meat from the animal did not enter the food supply, USDA said last month. > The agency has reported that no viral particles were found in samples of ground beef collected at retail stores, and that no bird flu virus was found after cooking ground beef to medium to well done, after it was injected with a virus surrogate as part of an experiment. day by day, imo, this virus is inching closer to humans. recently house mice were found to be infected [1]. it's becoming a bit reminiscent of late 2019. [0] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/cows-infected-with-bird-flu-have-died-five-us-states-2024-06-06/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/cows-infected-with-bird-flu... [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/why-the-discovery-of-h5n1-bird-flu-in-mice-is-so-alarming/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-diseas...