4 ms·

An electrician explaining electricity is like a cop explaining the law. They're hired to follow an instruction book. That doesn't mean that they have the leas

by tjic 14y ago

An electrician explaining electricity is like a cop explaining the law. They're hired to follow an instruction book. That doesn't mean that they have the least idea of the whys and wherefores of what's in the book. Look at any of 1,000 videos of cops making up laws, falsely citing either the Patriot Act of 9/11, or explaining that parts of the Constitution and Bill of Rights don't apply in certain circumstances. I'd rather listen to a cattle farmer talk about bovine genetics - he's likely to have some clue!

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
Yep. The correct person to ask about electricity is a Physicist, or in your analogy's case, a lawyer.
- DougBTX 14y ago
  As a physicist*, I would suggest speaking to an electrical engineer.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - K2h 14y ago
    As an EE, I say ask one specific branch of the Electrical Engineering profession. see [1], here there are 3 specific sub disciplines you can test in, and all are considered "EE" computer electronics power you want to talk to an expert in the power arena, but from what I remember when studying for the exam, the content was mostly things way above residential (which is what this discussion has been about) and more of power gen and conversion. Y, delta configurations and conversions, power angles and factors, etc. the kind of thing you come out really knowlegable in one very small area and still clueless on the NEMA power plug. [1] http://www.pels.ca.gov/applicants/refs.shtml http://www.pels.ca.gov/applicants/refs.shtml
- mturmon 14y ago
  But, conversely, be careful about asking a physicist to wire your home. They may not be conversant with the codes, which contain a lot of practical wisdom. I once tried to convince a physicist friend to not use just solder on his ground connections. He thought that by using solder he was going above-and-beyond the code. But actually, ground connections are required to be pressure-fit, not just soldered, to ensure that heating during a current spike does not allow the connection to separate.
  - ars 14y ago
    Sorry, but that's not true. For your solder joint to fail it would have to be hot enough to cause a fire. Pressure type connectors are simply cheaper and easier, and were not initially allowed because soldered connections are better. http://www.justanswer.com/electrical/18vcb-not-allowed-solder-connecting.html http://www.justanswer.com/electrical/18vcb-not-allowed-solde... Soldered (sweated) fittings are not allowed on gas lines for this reason though: If there was a fire you don't want the gas lines to leak after the solder melts.
    - mturmon 14y ago
      What I said is correct according to the NEC. In fact, the relevant part of your link says: "Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered." So, the joint has to be totally secure, mechanically and electrically, without the solder. My friend was relying on solder and tape, with an inadequate mechanical connection that relied partly on the solder to hold it together. His installation was therefore not compliant with the NEC, although he did not want to admit it. If you read the explanatory note related to the code, it gives the rationale I gave. Maybe it's BS, but it's the NEC.
      - ars 14y ago
        > relied partly on the solder to hold it together You are not ever supposed to do that. I was assuming he wrapped the wires together securely first. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Union_splice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Union_splice or even http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat-tail_splice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat-tail_splice I was just saying you don't have to use a pressure type connector - you can use a wrap splice, then solder it. (Electrical tape is not sufficient insulation, but you said this was a ground.)
ams6110 14y ago
How many electricians do you actually know?
- tjic 14y ago
  Three. One I walk dogs with daily.
rdl 14y ago
For a random residential cable puller, sure. (there are good electricians who do small scale, but it isn't necessary to do most residential work; it's really more about knowing how to retrofit things in various eras of construction, techniques for opening walls/patching, etc. -- kind of general handyman stuff) Commercial electricians. power engineers, etc. are quite smart. To use your analogy, the residential cable puller is like a local street cop, but commercial electricians and power engineers are FBI, SWAT, or lawyers. EEs are judges and legislators. You wouldn't get a comprehensive view of the law by talking to only one. (I took EE classes in college, although no power classes, and was really glad to know some commercial electricians when doing power systems for datacenters. It was all in unlicensed places, so there were no code/compliance issues, just performance and safety.)

by tjic 14y ago

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago

Yep. The correct person to ask about electricity is a Physicist, or in your analogy's case, a lawyer.

DougBTX 14y ago
As a physicist*, I would suggest speaking to an electrical engineer.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- K2h 14y ago
  As an EE, I say ask one specific branch of the Electrical Engineering profession. see [1], here there are 3 specific sub disciplines you can test in, and all are considered "EE" computer electronics power you want to talk to an expert in the power arena, but from what I remember when studying for the exam, the content was mostly things way above residential (which is what this discussion has been about) and more of power gen and conversion. Y, delta configurations and conversions, power angles and factors, etc. the kind of thing you come out really knowlegable in one very small area and still clueless on the NEMA power plug. [1] http://www.pels.ca.gov/applicants/refs.shtml http://www.pels.ca.gov/applicants/refs.shtml
mturmon 14y ago
But, conversely, be careful about asking a physicist to wire your home. They may not be conversant with the codes, which contain a lot of practical wisdom. I once tried to convince a physicist friend to not use just solder on his ground connections. He thought that by using solder he was going above-and-beyond the code. But actually, ground connections are required to be pressure-fit, not just soldered, to ensure that heating during a current spike does not allow the connection to separate.
- ars 14y ago
  Sorry, but that's not true. For your solder joint to fail it would have to be hot enough to cause a fire. Pressure type connectors are simply cheaper and easier, and were not initially allowed because soldered connections are better. http://www.justanswer.com/electrical/18vcb-not-allowed-solder-connecting.html http://www.justanswer.com/electrical/18vcb-not-allowed-solde... Soldered (sweated) fittings are not allowed on gas lines for this reason though: If there was a fire you don't want the gas lines to leak after the solder melts.
  - mturmon 14y ago
    What I said is correct according to the NEC. In fact, the relevant part of your link says: "Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered." So, the joint has to be totally secure, mechanically and electrically, without the solder. My friend was relying on solder and tape, with an inadequate mechanical connection that relied partly on the solder to hold it together. His installation was therefore not compliant with the NEC, although he did not want to admit it. If you read the explanatory note related to the code, it gives the rationale I gave. Maybe it's BS, but it's the NEC.
    - ars 14y ago
      > relied partly on the solder to hold it together You are not ever supposed to do that. I was assuming he wrapped the wires together securely first. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Union_splice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Union_splice or even http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat-tail_splice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat-tail_splice I was just saying you don't have to use a pressure type connector - you can use a wrap splice, then solder it. (Electrical tape is not sufficient insulation, but you said this was a ground.)

ams6110 14y ago

How many electricians do you actually know?

tjic 14y ago
Three. One I walk dogs with daily.

rdl 14y ago

For a random residential cable puller, sure. (there are good electricians who do small scale, but it isn't necessary to do most residential work; it's really more about knowing how to retrofit things in various eras of construction, techniques for opening walls/patching, etc. -- kind of general handyman stuff) Commercial electricians. power engineers, etc. are quite smart. To use your analogy, the residential cable puller is like a local street cop, but commercial electricians and power engineers are FBI, SWAT, or lawyers. EEs are judges and legislators. You wouldn't get a comprehensive view of the law by talking to only one. (I took EE classes in college, although no power classes, and was really glad to know some commercial electricians when doing power systems for datacenters. It was all in unlicensed places, so there were no code/compliance issues, just performance and safety.)