4 ms·

I don't think this can be said enough and judging from this story people don't seem to get it yet but let's give it another whirl: National rights and customs d

by z_ 14y ago

I don't think this can be said enough and judging from this story people don't seem to get it yet but let's give it another whirl: National rights and customs do not transfer with an individual.

moistgorilla 14y ago
But as an American I am practically funding this. They can keep their holyland for as long as they can hold it, I don't want my money funding their hate culture.
- jerrya 14y ago
  US Aid to Israel $3B TSA Budget: $8B 2012 Drone Budget (non-black) $5B 2013 Drug War $25.6B
  - dalke 14y ago
    It doesn't work that way. For one, you may need to scale by population, since obviously if there were only 1,000 people in Israel then we're probably overpaying. Our military support to Israel comes out to about $400 per Israeli resident, while the TSA spend is $26 per American resident. (BTW, as far as I could tell, we send military aid to Israel and make an additional several billion in "qualified loan guarantees", but that's all the direct financial support we do these days. There are other types of support than financial.) But it doesn't work that way either, since US military support sent to Israel also comes back to purchase US weapons. Yet another way to think of it is that Israel's military budget is $13 billion and revenue is $61 billion, so we pay for about 25% of their military funding and 5% of their total budget. Or another is that our $3 billion is about 1.2% of their $235 billion GDP. But it doesn't work that way either, since we support Israel for geopolitical reasons, and for reasons specific to US internal politics, and therefore get other things from our support. In any case, simply comparing the US aid to Israel with the amount we spend on other projects trivializes the matter. I believe moistgorilla was asking why our many years of significant contribution to their budget doesn't give US citizens special leeway when entering Israel, rather like how citizens of Poland complain how despite having provided material support to the war effort in Iraq they still aren't part of the US Visa Waiver program, or how Iraqi interpreters are still waiting for the US visas they were promised.
    - jerrya 14y ago
      As an American my money goes against my wishes to fund a lot of hate culture in my own backyard that I think worsens the world and increases danger in far more destructive ways than Israel stupidly, but humanely, turning away tourists at her borders. It's not that I am practically funding these practices, it is that I am funding these practices. It's also arguable that the example here, of a sovereign nation turning away a tourist is any sort of example of hate culture. And the argument that if any country takes our aid then they have to live up to our laws and expectations in each and every case is neither realistic, nor always helpful, nor does it seem to lead to ends that we want.
      - dalke 14y ago
        This did not come across from your previous posting. I read it as saying that we spend so much more on these other projects that we shouldn't be so concerned with the money we send to Israel. Thank you for your clarification. But then I don't understand why the TSA is listed there. While I am opposed to it in part because it does not add any extra security, I am not aware of any "hate crime" influence in its operations.
        jerrya 14y ago
        I think TSA here, in subway stations, and abroad (ask foreign travelers what they think of when traveling to the US) is responsible for a great deal of hate culture related to the US.
        dalke 14y ago
        That does make sense now. Thanks!
        rsanchez1 14y ago
        It's a logical connection to make. The story is about travel security creating a nightmare in Israel. The TSA creates a nightmare for travelers in the US.
- rsanchez1 14y ago
  Yeah, the same thing is happening here buddy, to ALL Americans. You can't travel without getting groped. I hope you are just as adamant about not wanting your money funding the paranoia culture of the TSA as you are about a holyland.

by z_ 14y ago

I don't think this can be said enough and judging from this story people don't seem to get it yet but let's give it another whirl: National rights and customs do not transfer with an individual.

moistgorilla 14y ago

But as an American I am practically funding this. They can keep their holyland for as long as they can hold it, I don't want my money funding their hate culture.

jerrya 14y ago
US Aid to Israel $3B TSA Budget: $8B 2012 Drone Budget (non-black) $5B 2013 Drug War $25.6B
- dalke 14y ago
  It doesn't work that way. For one, you may need to scale by population, since obviously if there were only 1,000 people in Israel then we're probably overpaying. Our military support to Israel comes out to about $400 per Israeli resident, while the TSA spend is $26 per American resident. (BTW, as far as I could tell, we send military aid to Israel and make an additional several billion in "qualified loan guarantees", but that's all the direct financial support we do these days. There are other types of support than financial.) But it doesn't work that way either, since US military support sent to Israel also comes back to purchase US weapons. Yet another way to think of it is that Israel's military budget is $13 billion and revenue is $61 billion, so we pay for about 25% of their military funding and 5% of their total budget. Or another is that our $3 billion is about 1.2% of their $235 billion GDP. But it doesn't work that way either, since we support Israel for geopolitical reasons, and for reasons specific to US internal politics, and therefore get other things from our support. In any case, simply comparing the US aid to Israel with the amount we spend on other projects trivializes the matter. I believe moistgorilla was asking why our many years of significant contribution to their budget doesn't give US citizens special leeway when entering Israel, rather like how citizens of Poland complain how despite having provided material support to the war effort in Iraq they still aren't part of the US Visa Waiver program, or how Iraqi interpreters are still waiting for the US visas they were promised.
  - jerrya 14y ago
    As an American my money goes against my wishes to fund a lot of hate culture in my own backyard that I think worsens the world and increases danger in far more destructive ways than Israel stupidly, but humanely, turning away tourists at her borders. It's not that I am practically funding these practices, it is that I am funding these practices. It's also arguable that the example here, of a sovereign nation turning away a tourist is any sort of example of hate culture. And the argument that if any country takes our aid then they have to live up to our laws and expectations in each and every case is neither realistic, nor always helpful, nor does it seem to lead to ends that we want.
    - dalke 14y ago
      This did not come across from your previous posting. I read it as saying that we spend so much more on these other projects that we shouldn't be so concerned with the money we send to Israel. Thank you for your clarification. But then I don't understand why the TSA is listed there. While I am opposed to it in part because it does not add any extra security, I am not aware of any "hate crime" influence in its operations.
      - jerrya 14y ago
        I think TSA here, in subway stations, and abroad (ask foreign travelers what they think of when traveling to the US) is responsible for a great deal of hate culture related to the US.
        dalke 14y ago
        That does make sense now. Thanks!
      - rsanchez1 14y ago
        It's a logical connection to make. The story is about travel security creating a nightmare in Israel. The TSA creates a nightmare for travelers in the US.
rsanchez1 14y ago
Yeah, the same thing is happening here buddy, to ALL Americans. You can't travel without getting groped. I hope you are just as adamant about not wanting your money funding the paranoia culture of the TSA as you are about a holyland.