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I don't get this take... what is the scam part? It's a real device that people can buy, and it does what it was purported to do... maybe it's not as amazing as

by ranman 2y ago

I don't get this take... what is the scam part? It's a real device that people can buy, and it does what it was purported to do... maybe it's not as amazing as people hoped, but does that make it a scam?

bmicraft 2y ago
But that's the whole point. It doesn't do what they claimed it would
nickthegreek 2y ago
The LAM stuff doesnt appear to be real. This youtube had a pretty convincing take: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLvFc_24vSM&pp=ygUGcmFiYml0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLvFc_24vSM&pp=ygUGcmFiYml0
- tethys 2y ago
  Can't tell if the guy, or the background, or both are AI generated.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
tiagod 2y ago
It does not do what it was purported to do though. It was supposed to have a built-in AI, including an AI to navigate websites that is just a bunch of manually written playwright scripts, and plenty of capabilities that are present in the marketing videos and promised by the CEO that simply do not exist.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
wmf 2y ago
Some of the advertised features like Uber seem to be super buggy or permanently "temporarily" unavailable. I wouldn't call it a scam per se but it's more of a beta or early access product.
xanderlewis 2y ago
It’s like people who say ‘Apple products are a scam’. If you don’t like them and think they’re overpriced, it’s simple: don’t buy them. Provided there’s no deceit, there’s no scam.
- bowsamic 2y ago
  There is deceit here, specifically that the LAM functionality is faked
  - xanderlewis 2y ago
    What is the supposed functionality? I haven’t followed this in detail.
    - tiagod 2y ago
      It's supposed to be a model that navigates apps and websites using ML, but instead it's just plain old, manually written scripts, that will break when a website or app changes.
tombert 2y ago
In the Coffeezilla videos linked in the post, the scam is that they kind of explicitly said that they're not just wrapping around ChatGPT. I don't know if I'd call it a "scam", just a bit dishonest.
nerdawson 2y ago
By that logic, Theranos wasn't a scam either. The hardware existed and it delivered a result. It didn't do what was claimed however and the results were routinely faked. It was claimed that the R1 would navigate an app like a person would. That it wouldn't matter if the UI changed because the AI would figure it out the same way a person would. It follows a script and breaks when the UI changes. It was claimed that it would be faster than ChatGPT. The majority of it is a ChatGPT wrapper. A product exists, sure, but I'd be surprised if anyone feels it met expectations.
- supermatt 2y ago
  Where have they said that a UI change wouldn’t matter? It is faster than chatGPTs voice chat.
  - tomca32 2y ago
    Can't find the interview now, but I remember watching it and yes they specifically said that because it is an AI, rather than just an automation script, it is intelligent and will not be thrown off by site redesigns or CAPTCHAs (they have later said that they won't handle CAPTCHAs also). Turns out that it is just an automation script and it cannot deal with site redesigns or CAPTCHAs. Edit, just found they have made this claim also which simply doesn't exist at all: > The R1 also has a dedicated training mode, which you can use to teach the device how to do something, and it will supposedly be able to repeat the action on its own going forward. Lyu gives an example: “You’ll be like, ‘Hey, first of all, go to a software called Photoshop. Open it. Grab your photos here. Make a lasso on the watermark and click click click click. This is how you remove watermark.’” It takes 30 seconds for Rabbit OS to process, Lyu says, and then it can automatically remove all your watermarks going forward.
    - supermatt 2y ago
      So it will allow you to create your own scripts! Regarding its “learning” - it is still a model that needs data. The best you can expect is it will take actual UI sessions (as in users interacting with the website) for specific tasks to build its scripts, and as with any current “large” model it’s not going to update in realtime based on user input alone.
nkozyra 2y ago
Scam generally implies some form of deception, and I think selling a product that claims to have proprietary AI and not just wrap ChatGPT when it does not have proprietary AI and in fact wraps ChatGPT certainly qualifies as deceptive.
supermatt 2y ago
I’m with you. People saying it uses scripts - so does every other ai - what exactly are they expecting? Why is this device being singled out over literally any assistant.
- tiagod 2y ago
  They announced their LAM AI as being able to navigate websites and apps by itself, and not needing any adjustments when the sites change or new sites are needed due to ML. Instead of that, they shipped a bunch of manually written playwright scripts for a small number of websites and apps... With no AI involved.
  - supermatt 2y ago
    Feel free to reference where they have said this. I see from your other comments you are saying this was supposed to be some AI that can navigate websites and perform tasks with no user input. Maybe you had some unrealistic expectations about what they were offering, as it has been quite clear they only offer limited integrations. It was even widely discussed that it was just some langchain (or similar) driven agents - apparent to anyone who has read even basic information about the product.

by ranman 2y ago

bmicraft 2y ago

But that's the whole point. It doesn't do what they claimed it would

nickthegreek 2y ago

The LAM stuff doesnt appear to be real. This youtube had a pretty convincing take: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLvFc_24vSM&pp=ygUGcmFiYml0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLvFc_24vSM&pp=ygUGcmFiYml0

tethys 2y ago
Can't tell if the guy, or the background, or both are AI generated.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

tiagod 2y ago

It does not do what it was purported to do though. It was supposed to have a built-in AI, including an AI to navigate websites that is just a bunch of manually written playwright scripts, and plenty of capabilities that are present in the marketing videos and promised by the CEO that simply do not exist.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

wmf 2y ago

Some of the advertised features like Uber seem to be super buggy or permanently "temporarily" unavailable. I wouldn't call it a scam per se but it's more of a beta or early access product.

xanderlewis 2y ago

It’s like people who say ‘Apple products are a scam’. If you don’t like them and think they’re overpriced, it’s simple: don’t buy them. Provided there’s no deceit, there’s no scam.

bowsamic 2y ago
There is deceit here, specifically that the LAM functionality is faked
- xanderlewis 2y ago
  What is the supposed functionality? I haven’t followed this in detail.
  - tiagod 2y ago
    It's supposed to be a model that navigates apps and websites using ML, but instead it's just plain old, manually written scripts, that will break when a website or app changes.

tombert 2y ago

In the Coffeezilla videos linked in the post, the scam is that they kind of explicitly said that they're not just wrapping around ChatGPT. I don't know if I'd call it a "scam", just a bit dishonest.

nerdawson 2y ago

By that logic, Theranos wasn't a scam either. The hardware existed and it delivered a result. It didn't do what was claimed however and the results were routinely faked. It was claimed that the R1 would navigate an app like a person would. That it wouldn't matter if the UI changed because the AI would figure it out the same way a person would. It follows a script and breaks when the UI changes. It was claimed that it would be faster than ChatGPT. The majority of it is a ChatGPT wrapper. A product exists, sure, but I'd be surprised if anyone feels it met expectations.

supermatt 2y ago
Where have they said that a UI change wouldn’t matter? It is faster than chatGPTs voice chat.
- tomca32 2y ago
  Can't find the interview now, but I remember watching it and yes they specifically said that because it is an AI, rather than just an automation script, it is intelligent and will not be thrown off by site redesigns or CAPTCHAs (they have later said that they won't handle CAPTCHAs also). Turns out that it is just an automation script and it cannot deal with site redesigns or CAPTCHAs. Edit, just found they have made this claim also which simply doesn't exist at all: > The R1 also has a dedicated training mode, which you can use to teach the device how to do something, and it will supposedly be able to repeat the action on its own going forward. Lyu gives an example: “You’ll be like, ‘Hey, first of all, go to a software called Photoshop. Open it. Grab your photos here. Make a lasso on the watermark and click click click click. This is how you remove watermark.’” It takes 30 seconds for Rabbit OS to process, Lyu says, and then it can automatically remove all your watermarks going forward.
  - supermatt 2y ago
    So it will allow you to create your own scripts! Regarding its “learning” - it is still a model that needs data. The best you can expect is it will take actual UI sessions (as in users interacting with the website) for specific tasks to build its scripts, and as with any current “large” model it’s not going to update in realtime based on user input alone.

nkozyra 2y ago

Scam generally implies some form of deception, and I think selling a product that claims to have proprietary AI and not just wrap ChatGPT when it does not have proprietary AI and in fact wraps ChatGPT certainly qualifies as deceptive.

supermatt 2y ago

I’m with you. People saying it uses scripts - so does every other ai - what exactly are they expecting? Why is this device being singled out over literally any assistant.

tiagod 2y ago
They announced their LAM AI as being able to navigate websites and apps by itself, and not needing any adjustments when the sites change or new sites are needed due to ML. Instead of that, they shipped a bunch of manually written playwright scripts for a small number of websites and apps... With no AI involved.
- supermatt 2y ago
  Feel free to reference where they have said this. I see from your other comments you are saying this was supposed to be some AI that can navigate websites and perform tasks with no user input. Maybe you had some unrealistic expectations about what they were offering, as it has been quite clear they only offer limited integrations. It was even widely discussed that it was just some langchain (or similar) driven agents - apparent to anyone who has read even basic information about the product.