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I meant for CI and other software that your company uses internally (e.g. not your own software offering to customers/clients). Yes for other purposes, lile hos

I meant for CI and other software that your company uses internally (e.g. not your own software offering to customers/clients). Yes for other purposes, lile hosting your software, the cloud provides reliability/scalability. But for Dev compute. That was the context of the DHH conversation. I would say the cost value still leaks in though: I have never seen a big three providers cloud costs per $ for a given machine ever reduce (excluding Spot bidding etc) - despite the fact the efficiency gains in recent years have been so fast it is making more and more sense to self-host either on prem or in a data center. Cloud was a lot cheaper in 2008 compared to buying off the shelf, not so much today.

re-thc 2y ago
> But for Dev compute. That was the context of the DHH conversation. My point was exactly that internal use cases still has a reliability/scalability factor. > it is making more and more sense to self-host either on prem or in a data center I'd say it's the other way around. Automation improvements, infrastructure as code and less knowledge has meant Cloud now makes sense. Back in the days it was a lot easier to find people skilled in self-hosting and the common language was something like Redhat and not AWS. Self-hosting didn't meant getting internal networking and stacks enough to run kubernetes. You'd have a single server or 2 and that was it. It's a totally different game. > I have never seen a big three providers cloud costs per $ for a given machine ever reduce It has in a lot of ways, e.g. similar prices for faster CPUs (newer generation) and e.g. with AWS getting 2 real cores vs 1 (core) + 1 (thread). The problem is server hardware is cheaper. Electricity, rent (data center) and wages is not. This growing cost eats into self-hosting a lot more than the hardware savings. The prices not going up is actually already a cost saving. Most data centers want to up your contract by at least inflation % per year if not more.
- authorfly 2y ago
  Thank you for the point on newer generations costing similar but delivering better; I hadn't considered that, I suppose my mind was on the serverless and Cloud API services, not machines under infra-based scaling. Electricity of a Macbook M1 Pro running my build locally is cheaper than self-hosting or Amazon, as far as I can tell so while I get your reasoning - I'm talking about Dev compute. Also MRKL and other tools (even yes for Infra as code) are making it to my mind more viable and easy than the old days. Good times are ahead.

re-thc 2y ago

> But for Dev compute. That was the context of the DHH conversation. My point was exactly that internal use cases still has a reliability/scalability factor. > it is making more and more sense to self-host either on prem or in a data center I'd say it's the other way around. Automation improvements, infrastructure as code and less knowledge has meant Cloud now makes sense. Back in the days it was a lot easier to find people skilled in self-hosting and the common language was something like Redhat and not AWS. Self-hosting didn't meant getting internal networking and stacks enough to run kubernetes. You'd have a single server or 2 and that was it. It's a totally different game. > I have never seen a big three providers cloud costs per $ for a given machine ever reduce It has in a lot of ways, e.g. similar prices for faster CPUs (newer generation) and e.g. with AWS getting 2 real cores vs 1 (core) + 1 (thread). The problem is server hardware is cheaper. Electricity, rent (data center) and wages is not. This growing cost eats into self-hosting a lot more than the hardware savings. The prices not going up is actually already a cost saving. Most data centers want to up your contract by at least inflation % per year if not more.

authorfly 2y ago
Thank you for the point on newer generations costing similar but delivering better; I hadn't considered that, I suppose my mind was on the serverless and Cloud API services, not machines under infra-based scaling. Electricity of a Macbook M1 Pro running my build locally is cheaper than self-hosting or Amazon, as far as I can tell so while I get your reasoning - I'm talking about Dev compute. Also MRKL and other tools (even yes for Infra as code) are making it to my mind more viable and easy than the old days. Good times are ahead.