4 ms·

I don't think it's crazy; it's competition, which is what should be happening. We want multiple private companies to be in this game, because that's the only wa

by pdonis 2y ago

I don't think it's crazy; it's competition, which is what should be happening. We want multiple private companies to be in this game, because that's the only way access to space will ever become practical at any kind of scale.

eastbound 2y ago
[flagged]
- RecycledEle 2y ago
  Tackling a new frontier pays off over the long term. I understand that it can be difficult to see that far ahead.
  - Wool2662 2y ago
    Yes, the last 5 remaining humans after the most recent climate disaster will thoroughly enjoy waving at the billionaires living on the luxury lunar retreat. The technological advancements were nice the first time around. But diminishing returns are a thing. I understand it can be difficult to understand that historic data does not reliably predict the future.
    - r7000 2y ago
      Why does anyone think the goal is a place for billionaires to flee to? Where does this come form? All initial efforts in the solar system will be extremely arduous. No one serious thinks otherwise.
- kspacewalk2 2y ago
  Yes, we want access to space at scale. Exploring space is no more "leasure" than experimental physics is a "hobby".
- kolinko 2y ago
  Space has resources we could extract without damaging the environment. (Aside from the primal human need for exploration, which brought your ancestors the where you live now - unless you live in central Africa)
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > It’s just leisure This describes almost all human activity outside agriculture. (EDIT: slash that—agriculture doesn’t make the cut either.) Shelter, medicine, education, transportation—none of this is biologically necessary by some measure. It’s difficult to look at history and not see the obvious—practically unchallenged—connection between technological ambition and quality of life. Paradoxically, if you only focus on feeding and clothing your population, you never do.
  - buran77 2y ago
    > This describes almost all human activity outside agriculture. Shelter, medicine, education, transportation—none of this is biologically necessary by some measure. Of all things, why would agriculture be the one exception from "leisure"? On the other hand why would shelter be considered anything but a biological imperative? Shelter is essential for survival. Agriculture is the kind of advanced organized activity developed much later than foraging or hunting.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > why would agriculture be the one exception from "leisure" You’re right. I was thinking for purposes of survival, but nomadic tribes disprove this assertion. > On the other hand why would shelter be considered anything but a biological imperative? Shelter beyond temporary protection from the elements is not necessary for survival, as exemplified by nomadic tribes.
      - kaashif 2y ago
        Protection from the elements is only needed in some places. If humans simply lived in the savannah and abandoned useless technologies like shelter and agriculture, we'd all be better off. Frankly I don't see the point of shelter. What, so we're going to live in the inhospitable environment of Europe? What would be the point? We should focus on preserving and maintaining our current home.
        2y ago
- tonynator 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - pfdietz 2y ago
    "Ensuring the survival of the human race" is such a remote goal that it cannot be a justification for current space activities. Anything that could be done now would only create a tenuous foothold that could not survive the loss of human life on Earth.
    - tonynator 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - pfdietz 2y ago
        The argument I'm making is that self sufficient colonies are so far away that building non-self sufficient colonies isn't on the critical path. The basic problem is the productivity needed is enormously higher than what we have now. Today, a large number of people can support a small number of people in space -- and that's with the high productivity we have with industry optimized for Earth (where, for example, repairing things and dissipating heat are much easier.) To make a colony self-sufficient, industry has to be so productive that supporting one person in space takes the work of fewer than one person. And, that productivity has to be in space. Not just building spacecraft and stations, but all the necessary materials and interlocking webs of devices and services that an industrial economy uses.
- octonion137 2y ago
  Agree, LLMs cost millions to train and we only have a few, who knows if the next LLM will be an Einstein
- pdonis 2y ago
  > Do we want access to space at scale? Who is "we"? Evidently a sufficient number of people want to to make private ventures have a reasonable expectation of profit. If you personally don't want to, then just don't get involved. But why should that stop people who do want to from doing it? > It’s just leisure. No, it's exploration with the expectation that it will lead to profitable ventures. The same thing that led people to spend months in sailing ships traveling around the world a few centuries ago. Plenty of people back then did not want to participate--but enough people did to eventually lead to the very profitable and wealth-generating system of worldwide trade we have now.
  - wwtrv 2y ago
    > The same thing that led people to spend months in sailing ships traveling around the world a few centuries ago The only real equivalent I can think of was the Arctic/Antarctic exploration. However that was massively cheaper and the environment was much more hospitable and not particularly profitable (and they couldn't send drones etc.). Most prior ventures had very practical goals and motivations and were mostly seeking a direct profit even if it didn't always work out. > have a reasonable expectation of profit Mainly through government funding though. The only directly profit generating activity that exists is launching satellites which on itself wouldn't really justify all the investment.
    - imiric 2y ago
      > The only directly profit generating activity that exists is launching satellites which on itself wouldn't really justify all the investment. In the very short-term, yes. In the mid-term, there's a lucrative industry of space tourism yet to be built. In the long-term, there are riches beyond our imagination to be exploited from asteroids and other Solar System objects. All of this should be motivating enough for companies, welwala.
- fullspectrumdev 2y ago
  In your opinion. In my opinion, I want to fuck about on the surface of the moon.

by pdonis 2y ago

eastbound 2y ago

[flagged]

RecycledEle 2y ago
Tackling a new frontier pays off over the long term. I understand that it can be difficult to see that far ahead.
- Wool2662 2y ago
  Yes, the last 5 remaining humans after the most recent climate disaster will thoroughly enjoy waving at the billionaires living on the luxury lunar retreat. The technological advancements were nice the first time around. But diminishing returns are a thing. I understand it can be difficult to understand that historic data does not reliably predict the future.
  - r7000 2y ago
    Why does anyone think the goal is a place for billionaires to flee to? Where does this come form? All initial efforts in the solar system will be extremely arduous. No one serious thinks otherwise.
kspacewalk2 2y ago
Yes, we want access to space at scale. Exploring space is no more "leasure" than experimental physics is a "hobby".
kolinko 2y ago
Space has resources we could extract without damaging the environment. (Aside from the primal human need for exploration, which brought your ancestors the where you live now - unless you live in central Africa)
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> It’s just leisure This describes almost all human activity outside agriculture. (EDIT: slash that—agriculture doesn’t make the cut either.) Shelter, medicine, education, transportation—none of this is biologically necessary by some measure. It’s difficult to look at history and not see the obvious—practically unchallenged—connection between technological ambition and quality of life. Paradoxically, if you only focus on feeding and clothing your population, you never do.
- buran77 2y ago
  > This describes almost all human activity outside agriculture. Shelter, medicine, education, transportation—none of this is biologically necessary by some measure. Of all things, why would agriculture be the one exception from "leisure"? On the other hand why would shelter be considered anything but a biological imperative? Shelter is essential for survival. Agriculture is the kind of advanced organized activity developed much later than foraging or hunting.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > why would agriculture be the one exception from "leisure" You’re right. I was thinking for purposes of survival, but nomadic tribes disprove this assertion. > On the other hand why would shelter be considered anything but a biological imperative? Shelter beyond temporary protection from the elements is not necessary for survival, as exemplified by nomadic tribes.
    - kaashif 2y ago
      Protection from the elements is only needed in some places. If humans simply lived in the savannah and abandoned useless technologies like shelter and agriculture, we'd all be better off. Frankly I don't see the point of shelter. What, so we're going to live in the inhospitable environment of Europe? What would be the point? We should focus on preserving and maintaining our current home.
      - 2y ago
tonynator 2y ago
[flagged]
- pfdietz 2y ago
  "Ensuring the survival of the human race" is such a remote goal that it cannot be a justification for current space activities. Anything that could be done now would only create a tenuous foothold that could not survive the loss of human life on Earth.
  - tonynator 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - pfdietz 2y ago
      The argument I'm making is that self sufficient colonies are so far away that building non-self sufficient colonies isn't on the critical path. The basic problem is the productivity needed is enormously higher than what we have now. Today, a large number of people can support a small number of people in space -- and that's with the high productivity we have with industry optimized for Earth (where, for example, repairing things and dissipating heat are much easier.) To make a colony self-sufficient, industry has to be so productive that supporting one person in space takes the work of fewer than one person. And, that productivity has to be in space. Not just building spacecraft and stations, but all the necessary materials and interlocking webs of devices and services that an industrial economy uses.
octonion137 2y ago
Agree, LLMs cost millions to train and we only have a few, who knows if the next LLM will be an Einstein
pdonis 2y ago
> Do we want access to space at scale? Who is "we"? Evidently a sufficient number of people want to to make private ventures have a reasonable expectation of profit. If you personally don't want to, then just don't get involved. But why should that stop people who do want to from doing it? > It’s just leisure. No, it's exploration with the expectation that it will lead to profitable ventures. The same thing that led people to spend months in sailing ships traveling around the world a few centuries ago. Plenty of people back then did not want to participate--but enough people did to eventually lead to the very profitable and wealth-generating system of worldwide trade we have now.
- wwtrv 2y ago
  > The same thing that led people to spend months in sailing ships traveling around the world a few centuries ago The only real equivalent I can think of was the Arctic/Antarctic exploration. However that was massively cheaper and the environment was much more hospitable and not particularly profitable (and they couldn't send drones etc.). Most prior ventures had very practical goals and motivations and were mostly seeking a direct profit even if it didn't always work out. > have a reasonable expectation of profit Mainly through government funding though. The only directly profit generating activity that exists is launching satellites which on itself wouldn't really justify all the investment.
  - imiric 2y ago
    > The only directly profit generating activity that exists is launching satellites which on itself wouldn't really justify all the investment. In the very short-term, yes. In the mid-term, there's a lucrative industry of space tourism yet to be built. In the long-term, there are riches beyond our imagination to be exploited from asteroids and other Solar System objects. All of this should be motivating enough for companies, welwala.
fullspectrumdev 2y ago
In your opinion. In my opinion, I want to fuck about on the surface of the moon.