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This line of propaganda is kind of infuriating. Separate from this incident, Israel bombed afaik every hospital in Gaza. They claimed Hamas was operating inside

This line of propaganda is kind of infuriating. Separate from this incident, Israel bombed afaik every hospital in Gaza. They claimed Hamas was operating inside them or under them and produced absolutely zero credible evidence of it. They killed a lot of doctors and patients. But if they start out polluting minds with the claim that one time at the Al Ahli parking lot, there was an Islamic Jihad rocket once, they then by extension use that to imply that Hamas is somehow responsible for all the deaths in hospitals that happen by Israeli hands on every other day.

mupuff1234 2y ago
You are changing the subject, I'm just disputing that NYtimes is Israel propaganda, I'm not claiming anything about the righteousness of Israeli actions.
- asveikau 2y ago
  My personal opinion of NYT is that their record is mixed on the subject. If you'll allow me to change the subject to one that is less presently divisive to provide an instructive example, NYT's conduct in the lead-up to the Iraq war is a great example of where they acted as a pro-war propaganda mouth piece, and maybe the institution doesn't deserve our total trust.
its_ethan 2y ago
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edanm 2y ago
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- asveikau 2y ago
  I don't want to go back and forth because it's off topic for HN. If you have seen images of destroyed hospitals and you're saying this, it seems insane to me. What you're saying is on the level of genocide denial. Ps. My family was targeted by the Holocaust too.
  - edanm 2y ago
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    - asveikau 2y ago
      "strong counterclaim". You and I have different definitions. I'm saying they're commiting mass murder in hospitals and you're saying they don't do it with air strikes. So I guess it's good then.
      - edanm 2y ago
        > I'm saying they're commiting mass murder in hospitals and you're saying they don't do it with air strikes. So I guess it's good then. I didn't say it was good. This thread was about whether NYT is biased or not, with the specific mention of them incorrectly stating a hospital was bombed. You then said that it's infuriating that people are correcting this and that this is propaganda, because every hospital has been bombed. There is an actual, objective truth here - have hospitals, and especially have all hospitals in Gaza, been bombed, or not. You can decide it doesn't matter, because bombing a hospital is equivalent to raiding a hospital, that's a valid inference. But: 1. I think the truth matters. It always matters, and it especially matters when talking about something complex and divisive. 2. I think that the reason most people say things like "all Gazan Hospitals were bombed", even though it's not true, is because they know that that sounds worse than stating what actually happened. I don't know what is more clear-cut propaganda than saying things that are not true to deliberately make the truth appear worse. Look, I understand we don't agree. I understand you think I'm just nitpicking or something over things that don't matter, just to pretend "no genocide is taking place" or something. I disagree. I think the truth matters. If you think I'm wrong on the facts, I want to be proven wrong - I've been wrong before, and after I'm shown the truth, I stopped saying the wrong thing. I think that's the basic level any person should operate at - not deliberately saying things that are untrue. But if you think I'm right on the facts, but they don't matter - then I think we have a very different idea of what's important and what isn't.
        asveikau 2y ago

mupuff1234 2y ago

You are changing the subject, I'm just disputing that NYtimes is Israel propaganda, I'm not claiming anything about the righteousness of Israeli actions.

asveikau 2y ago
My personal opinion of NYT is that their record is mixed on the subject. If you'll allow me to change the subject to one that is less presently divisive to provide an instructive example, NYT's conduct in the lead-up to the Iraq war is a great example of where they acted as a pro-war propaganda mouth piece, and maybe the institution doesn't deserve our total trust.

its_ethan 2y ago

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edanm 2y ago

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asveikau 2y ago
I don't want to go back and forth because it's off topic for HN. If you have seen images of destroyed hospitals and you're saying this, it seems insane to me. What you're saying is on the level of genocide denial. Ps. My family was targeted by the Holocaust too.
- edanm 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - asveikau 2y ago
    "strong counterclaim". You and I have different definitions. I'm saying they're commiting mass murder in hospitals and you're saying they don't do it with air strikes. So I guess it's good then.
    - edanm 2y ago
      > I'm saying they're commiting mass murder in hospitals and you're saying they don't do it with air strikes. So I guess it's good then. I didn't say it was good. This thread was about whether NYT is biased or not, with the specific mention of them incorrectly stating a hospital was bombed. You then said that it's infuriating that people are correcting this and that this is propaganda, because every hospital has been bombed. There is an actual, objective truth here - have hospitals, and especially have all hospitals in Gaza, been bombed, or not. You can decide it doesn't matter, because bombing a hospital is equivalent to raiding a hospital, that's a valid inference. But: 1. I think the truth matters. It always matters, and it especially matters when talking about something complex and divisive. 2. I think that the reason most people say things like "all Gazan Hospitals were bombed", even though it's not true, is because they know that that sounds worse than stating what actually happened. I don't know what is more clear-cut propaganda than saying things that are not true to deliberately make the truth appear worse. Look, I understand we don't agree. I understand you think I'm just nitpicking or something over things that don't matter, just to pretend "no genocide is taking place" or something. I disagree. I think the truth matters. If you think I'm wrong on the facts, I want to be proven wrong - I've been wrong before, and after I'm shown the truth, I stopped saying the wrong thing. I think that's the basic level any person should operate at - not deliberately saying things that are untrue. But if you think I'm right on the facts, but they don't matter - then I think we have a very different idea of what's important and what isn't.
      - asveikau 2y ago