4 ms·

"Manufacturing Consent" was written in the 80s mostly in response to newspapers, but the ideas have been adapted to the Internet for some time (and talk radio,

by dfxm12 2y ago

"Manufacturing Consent" was written in the 80s mostly in response to newspapers, but the ideas have been adapted to the Internet for some time (and talk radio, and cable news, etc.). I'm old enough to remember this from the Iraq war. Yeah, we didn't have microblogging back then, but there were Email campaigns, blogs, message boards, chat rooms, etc.

akudha 2y ago
Propaganda, false news etc are as old as time. It was the radio, TV and newspapers before, now it is social media and the internet. The difference now is the speed, cost and scale. It is super cheap to spread crap today than ever. Also it is quick and the reach is massive. By the way, Manufacturing Consent is a depressing book. You’d lose what little faith you have in media, if you read it…
- SCUSKU 2y ago
  I think one of the big takeaways for me was aside from deliberate manipulation of media by the government and willing media partners, that journalists also self censor in a way because they are operating in a professional environment and within a certain Overton Window. Maybe it's not what I should remember most, but it did help remind me that when your livelihood is based on what you say you will be much more measured, regardless of the subject. Probably why people look to social media or Substack for more independent people who have a longer leash, less on the line, and more to gain, since that's where you get your interesting although many times wrong takes (e.g. Ivermectin for Covid, or Lab Leak Theory)
bostik 2y ago
And let's keep in mind that the term "Public Relations" was explicitly chosen as a Newspeak-term because Edward Bernays realised that the actual term for a war time methodology, "propaganda", was too loaded.[0] And honest. Internet is a communications medium. It was destined to be flooded with propaganda, whatever you try to call your particular flavour. Or as I have been saying since the 1990's, the only difference between marketing and propaganda is that with marketing at least you are trying to peddle a product instead of an ideology. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays
- Terr_ 2y ago
  > Or as I have been saying since the 1990's, the only difference between marketing and propaganda is that with marketing at least you are trying to peddle a product instead of an ideology. I disagree, ideologies are often already in there, even when they are simplistic "power-tools are for men and all men require power-tools", or "having better stuff than your neighbors is a virtue, failing to do so will lead to dangerous ostracization." Very tame "Our blender spins twice as fast as the competition" marketing might be arguably free of ideology, but that's a decreasing minority.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    >I disagree, ideologies are often already in there, even when they are simplistic "power-tools are for men and all men require power-tools" I disagree. This isn't peddling an ideology, it's using an existing ideology (or stereotype) in order to peddle a product. A company with a marketing campaign targeting men isn't going to refuse to sell power tools to women, they're just designing their marketing campaign in a way they think will maximize sales overall, using existing biases and ideologies that potential customers already have. Normal companies don't care about ideology unless it helps them make more money, which is their true goal.
    - ab5tract 2y ago
      What you have described is, in fact, a mode of perpetuating ideology. If what you awere saying were accurate, it would absolve all capitalistic endeavors of reinforcing ideology, even the essential ideology of capitalism inherent in those endeavors. That’s not how this works. “The medium is the message,” as Marshall McLuhan would say. A woman may never consider buying power tools because of the imagery of the propaganda surrounding power tools. Or the salesman may undermine, intimidate, or otherwise obstruct her attempts to purchase one. But regardless your point falls apart because the ideology of capitalism underlying the power tools on the shelf subsumes the ideology of the advertising. That subsumption, however, does not in any way contraindicate those ideologies present in the advertisement’s framing. It only demonstrates that money is more important than the other ideologies being peddled.

by dfxm12 2y ago

akudha 2y ago

Propaganda, false news etc are as old as time. It was the radio, TV and newspapers before, now it is social media and the internet. The difference now is the speed, cost and scale. It is super cheap to spread crap today than ever. Also it is quick and the reach is massive. By the way, Manufacturing Consent is a depressing book. You’d lose what little faith you have in media, if you read it…

SCUSKU 2y ago
I think one of the big takeaways for me was aside from deliberate manipulation of media by the government and willing media partners, that journalists also self censor in a way because they are operating in a professional environment and within a certain Overton Window. Maybe it's not what I should remember most, but it did help remind me that when your livelihood is based on what you say you will be much more measured, regardless of the subject. Probably why people look to social media or Substack for more independent people who have a longer leash, less on the line, and more to gain, since that's where you get your interesting although many times wrong takes (e.g. Ivermectin for Covid, or Lab Leak Theory)

bostik 2y ago

And let's keep in mind that the term "Public Relations" was explicitly chosen as a Newspeak-term because Edward Bernays realised that the actual term for a war time methodology, "propaganda", was too loaded.[0] And honest. Internet is a communications medium. It was destined to be flooded with propaganda, whatever you try to call your particular flavour. Or as I have been saying since the 1990's, the only difference between marketing and propaganda is that with marketing at least you are trying to peddle a product instead of an ideology. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

Terr_ 2y ago
> Or as I have been saying since the 1990's, the only difference between marketing and propaganda is that with marketing at least you are trying to peddle a product instead of an ideology. I disagree, ideologies are often already in there, even when they are simplistic "power-tools are for men and all men require power-tools", or "having better stuff than your neighbors is a virtue, failing to do so will lead to dangerous ostracization." Very tame "Our blender spins twice as fast as the competition" marketing might be arguably free of ideology, but that's a decreasing minority.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  >I disagree, ideologies are often already in there, even when they are simplistic "power-tools are for men and all men require power-tools" I disagree. This isn't peddling an ideology, it's using an existing ideology (or stereotype) in order to peddle a product. A company with a marketing campaign targeting men isn't going to refuse to sell power tools to women, they're just designing their marketing campaign in a way they think will maximize sales overall, using existing biases and ideologies that potential customers already have. Normal companies don't care about ideology unless it helps them make more money, which is their true goal.
  - ab5tract 2y ago
    What you have described is, in fact, a mode of perpetuating ideology. If what you awere saying were accurate, it would absolve all capitalistic endeavors of reinforcing ideology, even the essential ideology of capitalism inherent in those endeavors. That’s not how this works. “The medium is the message,” as Marshall McLuhan would say. A woman may never consider buying power tools because of the imagery of the propaganda surrounding power tools. Or the salesman may undermine, intimidate, or otherwise obstruct her attempts to purchase one. But regardless your point falls apart because the ideology of capitalism underlying the power tools on the shelf subsumes the ideology of the advertising. That subsumption, however, does not in any way contraindicate those ideologies present in the advertisement’s framing. It only demonstrates that money is more important than the other ideologies being peddled.