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I struggle with not calling this propaganda: https://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/18skzb0/ah_behold_our_newest_billboards/ https://www.reddit.com/r/boston/

I struggle with not calling this propaganda: https://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/18skzb0/ah_behold_our_newest_billboards/ https://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/18skzb0/ah_behold_o... https://www.boston25news.com/news/local/new-billboards-along-mass-highways-aim-fight-antisemitism/QB62PR4KNZEJBI5ZJRIR2WRGW4/ https://www.boston25news.com/news/local/new-billboards-along...

ajross 2y ago
Then you have a somewhat unconventional personal definition for "propaganda". Almost always people use that word to imply something clandestine, misleading, or both. What you showed is a paid advertisement from a US-registered 501(c)(3) nonprofit, JewBelong, with public accounting on all donations, and a relatively clear mandate for how it spends its money. Again, you're simply saying that a (really only slightly edgy) billboard paid for by your fellow americans with their own money and aimed at changing your opinion via argumentation should be disallowed as "propaganda" simply because you disagree with it (and again: I disagree with it too!). Tough love: of the dueling philosophies at play here, yours is by far the most dangerous. Let people argue with you, for crying out loud.
- nerdjon 2y ago
  I do not believe that is the case, you seem to have a more narrow view of propaganda. Just look at the Webster definition: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda What you describe is one form of propaganda but not the only one. Would you agree that Rosy the Riveter was Propaganda? Or this one https://www.archives.gov/files/exhibits/powers-of-persuasion/images/13229_2011_001_AC.jpg https://www.archives.gov/files/exhibits/powers-of-persuasion... Both very famous pieces of propaganda the US put out during War. Neither of them are misleading. They were put out to encourage people to take an action.
  - ajross 2y ago
    Then maybe cite the definition you're using? And explain why it doesn't fit every kind of opinion broadcasting. Like, are flyers for a protest "propaganda"? Is grafitti propaganda? Is writing an opinion essay propaganda? Hosting a blog propaganda? Where does it stop?
    - nerdjon 2y ago
      Do you cite a definition for every word you use? Of course not. I am using the definition as defined by Webster and every other source I can find. I am using it the same way that the pieces I referenced, were also considered propaganda. I am using the excepted actual definition of Propaganda and there is zero reason to expect I need to define otherwise. That is just not a normal expectation when communicating. You having your own definition that does not follow the accepted definitions of the word with examples, is not my problem. You also didn't answer my question about rosy the riveter which if we would consider that propaganda (which it is considered propaganda) I would consider the billboards propaganda.
    - pvg 2y ago
      Like, are flyers for a protest "propaganda"? Is grafitti propaganda? They easily can be. Same with opinion broadcasting. It's not a matter of some strict definition, just whether you prefer a negative connotation with "propaganda" and how you feel about the thing being propagandized given that the negative connotation is the most common English usage.
      - ajross 2y ago
        That was exactly my point. The use of "propaganda" by nerdjon really just means "an opinion I disagree with".
        nerdjon 2y ago
        That is quite a simplistic view. Generally, Propaganda is used to sway opinion, get action, or similar when people may not be inclined a certain way on their own. Ask yourself this: if there was not opposition to what Israel is doing right now, would they have made these billboards. Most likely no. Would Rosie the Riveter happen if there was not a need for Woman in the workforce during the war? Could keep giving examples, but you get the idea. There are plenty of examples out there of established propaganda that isn't misleading or negative. It depends on the message they are trying to send and the action they are looking for.
  - ithkuil 2y ago
    The broader meaning of propaganda then just means "spreading ideas to further a cause". If that's true then it would be a neutral word. But "propaganda" is not a neutral word in practice. It implies something intentionally misleading. I don't think expressing concern about Hamas is propaganda. If the billboard said (or implied) "all Palestinians are Hamas terrorists" that would be propaganda
- realreality 2y ago
  > Almost always people use that word to imply something clandestine, misleading, or both. No, propaganda is often quite blatant. Look at the posters from both of the World Wars, depicting US enemies as vicious, inhuman monsters. Even the “Rosie the Riveter” and Uncle Sam imagery is propaganda. Propaganda can be any sort of one-sided media used to manipulate public opinion. It doesn’t necessarily have to be banned, but people need to learn more media literacy to recognize it.
- anigbrowl 2y ago
  Don't know about other countries, but in the Bay Area a bunch of those billboards have been vandalized/edited by non-Zionist Jewish groups. Anyway, advertising media are antithetical to debate, which presumes approximately equal access to an audience to lay out two or more competing ideas at once. You can't argue with a billboard, you can only rent another billboard, and pretty soon you have billboards everywhere. This is a garbage concept of political discourse.

ajross 2y ago

Then you have a somewhat unconventional personal definition for "propaganda". Almost always people use that word to imply something clandestine, misleading, or both. What you showed is a paid advertisement from a US-registered 501(c)(3) nonprofit, JewBelong, with public accounting on all donations, and a relatively clear mandate for how it spends its money. Again, you're simply saying that a (really only slightly edgy) billboard paid for by your fellow americans with their own money and aimed at changing your opinion via argumentation should be disallowed as "propaganda" simply because you disagree with it (and again: I disagree with it too!). Tough love: of the dueling philosophies at play here, yours is by far the most dangerous. Let people argue with you, for crying out loud.

nerdjon 2y ago
I do not believe that is the case, you seem to have a more narrow view of propaganda. Just look at the Webster definition: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda What you describe is one form of propaganda but not the only one. Would you agree that Rosy the Riveter was Propaganda? Or this one https://www.archives.gov/files/exhibits/powers-of-persuasion/images/13229_2011_001_AC.jpg https://www.archives.gov/files/exhibits/powers-of-persuasion... Both very famous pieces of propaganda the US put out during War. Neither of them are misleading. They were put out to encourage people to take an action.
- ajross 2y ago
  Then maybe cite the definition you're using? And explain why it doesn't fit every kind of opinion broadcasting. Like, are flyers for a protest "propaganda"? Is grafitti propaganda? Is writing an opinion essay propaganda? Hosting a blog propaganda? Where does it stop?
  - nerdjon 2y ago
    Do you cite a definition for every word you use? Of course not. I am using the definition as defined by Webster and every other source I can find. I am using it the same way that the pieces I referenced, were also considered propaganda. I am using the excepted actual definition of Propaganda and there is zero reason to expect I need to define otherwise. That is just not a normal expectation when communicating. You having your own definition that does not follow the accepted definitions of the word with examples, is not my problem. You also didn't answer my question about rosy the riveter which if we would consider that propaganda (which it is considered propaganda) I would consider the billboards propaganda.
  - pvg 2y ago
    Like, are flyers for a protest "propaganda"? Is grafitti propaganda? They easily can be. Same with opinion broadcasting. It's not a matter of some strict definition, just whether you prefer a negative connotation with "propaganda" and how you feel about the thing being propagandized given that the negative connotation is the most common English usage.
    - ajross 2y ago
      That was exactly my point. The use of "propaganda" by nerdjon really just means "an opinion I disagree with".
      - nerdjon 2y ago
        That is quite a simplistic view. Generally, Propaganda is used to sway opinion, get action, or similar when people may not be inclined a certain way on their own. Ask yourself this: if there was not opposition to what Israel is doing right now, would they have made these billboards. Most likely no. Would Rosie the Riveter happen if there was not a need for Woman in the workforce during the war? Could keep giving examples, but you get the idea. There are plenty of examples out there of established propaganda that isn't misleading or negative. It depends on the message they are trying to send and the action they are looking for.
- ithkuil 2y ago
  The broader meaning of propaganda then just means "spreading ideas to further a cause". If that's true then it would be a neutral word. But "propaganda" is not a neutral word in practice. It implies something intentionally misleading. I don't think expressing concern about Hamas is propaganda. If the billboard said (or implied) "all Palestinians are Hamas terrorists" that would be propaganda
realreality 2y ago
> Almost always people use that word to imply something clandestine, misleading, or both. No, propaganda is often quite blatant. Look at the posters from both of the World Wars, depicting US enemies as vicious, inhuman monsters. Even the “Rosie the Riveter” and Uncle Sam imagery is propaganda. Propaganda can be any sort of one-sided media used to manipulate public opinion. It doesn’t necessarily have to be banned, but people need to learn more media literacy to recognize it.
anigbrowl 2y ago
Don't know about other countries, but in the Bay Area a bunch of those billboards have been vandalized/edited by non-Zionist Jewish groups. Anyway, advertising media are antithetical to debate, which presumes approximately equal access to an audience to lay out two or more competing ideas at once. You can't argue with a billboard, you can only rent another billboard, and pretty soon you have billboards everywhere. This is a garbage concept of political discourse.