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> It's impossible to plan without an internal monologue. Of course it isn't impossible, and this is backed by what we know about paleoanthropology and other in

> It's impossible to plan without an internal monologue. Of course it isn't impossible, and this is backed by what we know about paleoanthropology and other instances of cognition in animals - humans were making stone tools millions of years ago, which takes planning in the form of imagining what you want the tool to look like and how you will do it and what it will be used for. It's exceedingly likely we had this ability long before complex speech evolved. Apes also use and make tools, which would require planning, and I don't think they have an internal monologue going on. birds from the corvid family can do some pretty advanced problem solving that requires planning. Cetaceans might be an exception, because they appear to have some form of language, but this is a pretty wild claim not really backed by any kind of science as we understand it today.

GeoAtreides 2y ago
Animals can not manipulate abstract concepts nor can they do long-term plans. No crow can plan an international trip spanning a couple of weeks and two change-overs. And some people definitely can't do it start to end, but they can at least plan the first 5-7 steps. Also, maybe inner monologue is not a binary have/have not, but maybe it is on a continuum.
- glitchc 2y ago
  Not sure. Migratory birds seem to manage this just fine. Not only do they make multiple stops to eat and rest, they also navigate around bad weather and still make it to their intended destination (at least most of the time).
  - GeoAtreides 2y ago
    > Migratory birds seem to manage this just fine Instincts.
- JohnMakin 2y ago
  Yes, no one is disputing that animals are not as intelligent and lack the same capacity for planning that humans do, but the post you're replying to is disputing the fact that planning is done solely through internal narrative/monologue, which is easily disprovable by pointing to the examples I did. There are many more in nature.

GeoAtreides 2y ago

Animals can not manipulate abstract concepts nor can they do long-term plans. No crow can plan an international trip spanning a couple of weeks and two change-overs. And some people definitely can't do it start to end, but they can at least plan the first 5-7 steps. Also, maybe inner monologue is not a binary have/have not, but maybe it is on a continuum.

glitchc 2y ago
Not sure. Migratory birds seem to manage this just fine. Not only do they make multiple stops to eat and rest, they also navigate around bad weather and still make it to their intended destination (at least most of the time).
- GeoAtreides 2y ago
  > Migratory birds seem to manage this just fine Instincts.
JohnMakin 2y ago
Yes, no one is disputing that animals are not as intelligent and lack the same capacity for planning that humans do, but the post you're replying to is disputing the fact that planning is done solely through internal narrative/monologue, which is easily disprovable by pointing to the examples I did. There are many more in nature.