4 ms·

Yeah, no thanks. Many things were misinformation until they were true. Don't forget the lesson of Li Wenliang[1], who was formally censured for "publishing untr

Yeah, no thanks. Many things were misinformation until they were true. Don't forget the lesson of Li Wenliang[1], who was formally censured for "publishing untrue statements". We now know him as one of the first to document COVID-19. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Wenliang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Wenliang

DFHippie 2y ago
Yes, this happens. But giving up and letting the lies fly willy-nilly has a still worse record. Every measure to combat disinformation is imperfect. Many are better than failing to combat disinformation in any way. And lumping the Chinese state together with fact checking organizations is not a good argument.
- svieira 2y ago
  The Chinese state is a fact-checking organization, with all the foibles and follies that are associated with letting people (e. g. free-willed beings) fact-check other people. Fortunately, reality allows for multiple inheritance, the Chinese state doesn't have to only be a fact-checking organization.
  - dragonwriter 2y ago
    Multiple inheritance is a bad metaphor to invoke here, since that is when a class can have multiple parents, not when a class can have multiple instances.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    > The Chinese state is a fact-checking organization Easier for them, because they also have the authority to declare what is fact.
- j_walter 2y ago
  > And lumping the Chinese state together with fact checking organizations is not a good argument. This was not just the Chinese state. Fauci said from day 1 that this was not a lab leak and anyone saying that should be discredited.
  - the_gastropod 2y ago
    Do you have a source for this? The comments I've found from Fauci about the lab leak theory are as follows: > "If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats and what's out there now, [the scientific evidence] is very, very strongly leaning toward this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated … Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that [this virus] evolved in nature and then jumped species," You also have to remember what else was going on around this time. Namely, that the president was claiming to have seen evidence that it was a man-made virus from the Chinese, and suggesting it was a weapon, calling it the "Kung Flu", the "Wuhan Flu", etc. There were significant sociological impacts from this, including a dramatic increase in violence against Asian-Americans. Context matters.
    - j_walter 2y ago
      https://www.nationalreview.com/news/fauci-prompted-scientific-paper-purporting-to-debunk-covid-lab-leak-theory-emails-show/ https://www.nationalreview.com/news/fauci-prompted-scientifi... Many reports show man made in lab is more likely now.
      - the_gastropod 2y ago
        The National Review is an extremely right-wing News Source citing a House Oversight Committee letter written by two absolute political hacks: Jim Jordan and James Comey. It attempts to hint at Fauci commissioning a paper that attempted to debunk the lab theory, but is very imprecise and hand-wavy. The article never comes close to backing your initial claim that: > Fauci said from day 1 that this was not a lab leak and anyone saying that should be discredited Let's go straight to the source of that National Review article, the House Oversight Committee's 2022 letter to Secretary Becerra [1]. If wade through the innuendo in the letter, it's pretty clear that: Dr. Kristen Anderson sent an email to Dr. Fauci expressing her worries about whether the furin cleavage site in SARS2 was naturally evolved or a product of genetic engineering. To address Anderson's concerns, Dr. Fauci organized an online meeting via Zoom with her and a group of other specialists, which successfully dispelled Anderson's fears. The fact is, following the Zoom conference, Anderson, along with three other participants, authored a research paper on the origins of COVID-19 that was published in the prestigious journal, Nature, in March 2020. This paper was not directed or "commissioned" by either Fauci or Collins. While Anderson did share advance copies potentially with them and others for their remarks, a common academic convention, there wasn't any attribution given for their possible input. Suggesting that Anderson wrote the paper to advance Dr. Fauci's political agenda is just (yes) conspiratorial nonsense. Republicans in general don't like China or the concept of expertise (almost entirely because the CCP has "Communist" in the name, and expert opinions tend to refute the majority of things Republicans fight for). Dunking on China is evergreen political fodder for the right, no matter how outlandish. In 2020, (and still today, as far as I've ever read), the preponderance of scientific evidence points to the origin of covid being zoonotic. The atmosphere of speculation by politically-motivated buffoons didn't help clarify any of this, and continues to confuse people today. [1] https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Letter-Re.-Feb-1-Emails-011122.pdf https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Lette...
- faeriechangling 2y ago
  The Chinese state is a fact checking organization. I see no difference other than the fact the Chinese state has power and this is already extremely warped and corrupt, while the other fact checkers are merely striving for similar power. The only implementation of fact checking I’ve seen which has yet to turn corrupt is Twitter’s Birdwatch which is a much better record than these journalistic organizations we call fact checkers who feel they should control truth.
  - the_gastropod 2y ago
    Amoebas and blue whales: they both respirate. I see no difference other than the fact that a blue whale is already extremely large, while the other is merely striving for a similar size.
mcguire 2y ago
And don't forget that the Houthis recently struck the USS Eisenhower with ballistic missiles. https://x.com/iAmTheWarax/status/1797732901846692117 https://x.com/iAmTheWarax/status/1797732901846692117 (Yeah, @iAmTheWarax's tweet is a shitpost. It's apparently also been quoted in Newsweek as confirming the story.)

DFHippie 2y ago

Yes, this happens. But giving up and letting the lies fly willy-nilly has a still worse record. Every measure to combat disinformation is imperfect. Many are better than failing to combat disinformation in any way. And lumping the Chinese state together with fact checking organizations is not a good argument.

svieira 2y ago
The Chinese state is a fact-checking organization, with all the foibles and follies that are associated with letting people (e. g. free-willed beings) fact-check other people. Fortunately, reality allows for multiple inheritance, the Chinese state doesn't have to only be a fact-checking organization.
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  Multiple inheritance is a bad metaphor to invoke here, since that is when a class can have multiple parents, not when a class can have multiple instances.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  > The Chinese state is a fact-checking organization Easier for them, because they also have the authority to declare what is fact.
j_walter 2y ago
> And lumping the Chinese state together with fact checking organizations is not a good argument. This was not just the Chinese state. Fauci said from day 1 that this was not a lab leak and anyone saying that should be discredited.
- the_gastropod 2y ago
  Do you have a source for this? The comments I've found from Fauci about the lab leak theory are as follows: > "If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats and what's out there now, [the scientific evidence] is very, very strongly leaning toward this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated … Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that [this virus] evolved in nature and then jumped species," You also have to remember what else was going on around this time. Namely, that the president was claiming to have seen evidence that it was a man-made virus from the Chinese, and suggesting it was a weapon, calling it the "Kung Flu", the "Wuhan Flu", etc. There were significant sociological impacts from this, including a dramatic increase in violence against Asian-Americans. Context matters.
  - j_walter 2y ago
    https://www.nationalreview.com/news/fauci-prompted-scientific-paper-purporting-to-debunk-covid-lab-leak-theory-emails-show/ https://www.nationalreview.com/news/fauci-prompted-scientifi... Many reports show man made in lab is more likely now.
    - the_gastropod 2y ago
      The National Review is an extremely right-wing News Source citing a House Oversight Committee letter written by two absolute political hacks: Jim Jordan and James Comey. It attempts to hint at Fauci commissioning a paper that attempted to debunk the lab theory, but is very imprecise and hand-wavy. The article never comes close to backing your initial claim that: > Fauci said from day 1 that this was not a lab leak and anyone saying that should be discredited Let's go straight to the source of that National Review article, the House Oversight Committee's 2022 letter to Secretary Becerra [1]. If wade through the innuendo in the letter, it's pretty clear that: Dr. Kristen Anderson sent an email to Dr. Fauci expressing her worries about whether the furin cleavage site in SARS2 was naturally evolved or a product of genetic engineering. To address Anderson's concerns, Dr. Fauci organized an online meeting via Zoom with her and a group of other specialists, which successfully dispelled Anderson's fears. The fact is, following the Zoom conference, Anderson, along with three other participants, authored a research paper on the origins of COVID-19 that was published in the prestigious journal, Nature, in March 2020. This paper was not directed or "commissioned" by either Fauci or Collins. While Anderson did share advance copies potentially with them and others for their remarks, a common academic convention, there wasn't any attribution given for their possible input. Suggesting that Anderson wrote the paper to advance Dr. Fauci's political agenda is just (yes) conspiratorial nonsense. Republicans in general don't like China or the concept of expertise (almost entirely because the CCP has "Communist" in the name, and expert opinions tend to refute the majority of things Republicans fight for). Dunking on China is evergreen political fodder for the right, no matter how outlandish. In 2020, (and still today, as far as I've ever read), the preponderance of scientific evidence points to the origin of covid being zoonotic. The atmosphere of speculation by politically-motivated buffoons didn't help clarify any of this, and continues to confuse people today. [1] https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Letter-Re.-Feb-1-Emails-011122.pdf https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Lette...
faeriechangling 2y ago
The Chinese state is a fact checking organization. I see no difference other than the fact the Chinese state has power and this is already extremely warped and corrupt, while the other fact checkers are merely striving for similar power. The only implementation of fact checking I’ve seen which has yet to turn corrupt is Twitter’s Birdwatch which is a much better record than these journalistic organizations we call fact checkers who feel they should control truth.
- the_gastropod 2y ago
  Amoebas and blue whales: they both respirate. I see no difference other than the fact that a blue whale is already extremely large, while the other is merely striving for a similar size.

mcguire 2y ago

And don't forget that the Houthis recently struck the USS Eisenhower with ballistic missiles. https://x.com/iAmTheWarax/status/1797732901846692117 https://x.com/iAmTheWarax/status/1797732901846692117 (Yeah, @iAmTheWarax's tweet is a shitpost. It's apparently also been quoted in Newsweek as confirming the story.)