8 ms·

How are those guys not treated as some hostile foreign power and have half their embassy staff expelled is beyond me.

by Simon_ORourke 2y ago

lprd 2y ago
I’ve often pondered the same. Seems like Israel gets a lot of special treatment from the US.
- imzadi 2y ago
  Because anti-Semitism is used to derail any conversation about Israel. If you criticize Israel, you're accused of being an anti-Semite, and actual anti-Semites flood the conversation with actual anti-Semitism that immediately shuts everything down.
  - recursivedoubts 2y ago
    if i were a government and any conversation that criticized me could be shut down by calling it something I would pay people to do that something
  - issafram 2y ago
    Also, people ignore that Palestinians are Semites as well.
    - nsguy 2y ago
      [flagged]
- bell-cot 2y ago
  You might want to ask a few old politicians about what effects "being perceived as insufficiently pro-Israel" has historically had, on Election Day.
- vmladenov 2y ago
  Well, them and Saudi Arabia. It’s useful to have allies in the Middle East to protect trade routes.
lenerdenator 2y ago
General lack of countries with something even vaguely resembling representative government in the Middle East. Israel seems to only extend that sort of courtesy to a part of its citizenry, but when you remember that the "stable" countries in the region are all more-or-less absolute monarchies, it becomes obvious why the US is willing to at least work with Israel.
- TedDoesntTalk 2y ago
  > Israel seems to only extend that sort of courtesy to a part of its citizenry There have been over 100 Arabs in the Israeli parliament: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Kn...
  - lenerdenator 2y ago
    Good for them. But if you're Arab Israeli, you don't have the same slate of rights and representation that Jewish Israelis have. See: freedom of movement to and from the Gaza Strip prior to October 7th.
    - invalidname 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - idunnoman1222 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - jedimind 2y ago
        David Wasserstein, Professor of Jewish History: "Islam saved Jewry. This is an unpopular, discomforting claim in the modern world. But it is a historical truth." https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/so-what-did-the-muslims-do-for-the-jews-dp63sti8 https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/so-what-did-the-muslims-do-f... https://jewishstudies.stanford.edu/events/david-wasserstein-how-islam-saved-jews https://jewishstudies.stanford.edu/events/david-wasserstein-...
pessimizer 2y ago
Because all the aid for Israel comes back to arms dealers and other wealthy creeps in the US, and they own our politics. Israelis are just doing what their version of Judaism is telling them to do, it's the neocon Zionists in the US that finance it that are the real danger. It isn't just that they don't care about Palestinian lives, they don't care about Israeli lives, either. They care about Israeli contracts.
notaustinpowers 2y ago
Because of the 535 politicians we have, 45 of them have received donations just during the 2024 election cycle. Big names like Ted Cruz, Marsha Blackburn, Rick Scott, Mitt Romney, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, etc. It's bipartisan enough that I don't believe the parties will be able to come to an agreement to enact any meaningful change. This goes beyond the Republican vs. Democrat issues so it's much more difficult to make this a partisan issue to rally mass support from either party.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> How are those guys not treated as some hostile foreign power Americans’ views of the Israeli people are broadly positive [1]. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/05/30/how-americans-and-israelis-view-one-another-and-the-us-role-in-the-israel-hamas-war/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/05/30/how-ameri... 64%
- jedimind 2y ago
  That really doesn't mean much in a society that has perfected the art of manufacturing consent[0] "The survey puts numbers on trends that have become increasingly apparent: Cable news viewers are more supportive of Israel’s war effort, less likely to think Israel is committing war crimes, and less interested in the war in general. People who get their news primarily from social media, YouTube, or podcasts, by contrast, generally side with the Palestinians, believe Israel is committing war crimes and genocide, and consider the issue of significant importance. WE OFTEN HEAR people say that “Twitter isn’t real life” or that “Nobody watches cable news,” but the survey asked where people get most of their news, asking them to pick just one, and cable and social media won out. Most Americans do in fact get their news either primarily from cable (42 percent) or social media like TikTok, Instagram, or another platform (18 percent). A third of people said they get their news from YouTube or podcasts, with 13 percent saying they got most of their news that way. Asked generally where folks got their news on a day-to-day basis, with a “check all that apply” option, it’s even more clear how dominant cable (55 percent), social media (38 percent), and podcasts/YouTube (34) are compared to print, at 21 percent. (I read the survey as using “print” as a stand-in for any text-based media, whether digital like The Intercept or on actual printed paper.) " Even the polls you referenced show how stark the contrast between young and old americans are on this topic. Some of the older americans barely have any education on this topic but just stick with the zionist propaganda they were fed when they were younger, they couldn't even locate Israel/Palestine on a map. Most of the older christian zealots don't have the critical thinking skills or capacity to change their mind on the topic because their indoctrination is so thorough that they'd rather deny reality than face the facts. Not surprising considering they grew up on a mantra that the so called "chosen" people can do no wrong. I think if those christians who voted favorably had seen how israelis spit[3] on christians and assault[4][5] christians, their opinions would change swiftly, but the news channels they consume won't feed them this reality because consent needs to be manufactured. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent [1] https://theintercept.com/2024/04/30/gaza-israel-palestine-cable-news-poll/ https://theintercept.com/2024/04/30/gaza-israel-palestine-ca... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJNfKTO7XK8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJNfKTO7XK8 [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBdF3qyO2zU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBdF3qyO2zU [5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq28ZFNzaWM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq28ZFNzaWM
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
pedalpete 2y ago
So would you also expel Russian and Chinese embassy staff? Allies influencing other allies is part of the process. Don't just think that it is Israel doing it in America. America is also doing similar actions in other countries where they want to win favour.
- protocolture 2y ago
  Russians are pretty close I would think.
- acdha 2y ago
  > So would you also expel Russian and Chinese embassy staff? Yes? This happens periodically when someone is caught doing something outside of normal diplomatic duties.

How are those guys not treated as some hostile foreign power and have half their embassy staff expelled is beyond me.

lprd 2y ago

I’ve often pondered the same. Seems like Israel gets a lot of special treatment from the US.

imzadi 2y ago
Because anti-Semitism is used to derail any conversation about Israel. If you criticize Israel, you're accused of being an anti-Semite, and actual anti-Semites flood the conversation with actual anti-Semitism that immediately shuts everything down.
- recursivedoubts 2y ago
  if i were a government and any conversation that criticized me could be shut down by calling it something I would pay people to do that something
- issafram 2y ago
  Also, people ignore that Palestinians are Semites as well.
  - nsguy 2y ago
    [flagged]
bell-cot 2y ago
You might want to ask a few old politicians about what effects "being perceived as insufficiently pro-Israel" has historically had, on Election Day.
vmladenov 2y ago
Well, them and Saudi Arabia. It’s useful to have allies in the Middle East to protect trade routes.

lenerdenator 2y ago

General lack of countries with something even vaguely resembling representative government in the Middle East. Israel seems to only extend that sort of courtesy to a part of its citizenry, but when you remember that the "stable" countries in the region are all more-or-less absolute monarchies, it becomes obvious why the US is willing to at least work with Israel.

TedDoesntTalk 2y ago
> Israel seems to only extend that sort of courtesy to a part of its citizenry There have been over 100 Arabs in the Israeli parliament: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Kn...
- lenerdenator 2y ago
  Good for them. But if you're Arab Israeli, you don't have the same slate of rights and representation that Jewish Israelis have. See: freedom of movement to and from the Gaza Strip prior to October 7th.
  - invalidname 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - idunnoman1222 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - jedimind 2y ago
      David Wasserstein, Professor of Jewish History: "Islam saved Jewry. This is an unpopular, discomforting claim in the modern world. But it is a historical truth." https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/so-what-did-the-muslims-do-for-the-jews-dp63sti8 https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/so-what-did-the-muslims-do-f... https://jewishstudies.stanford.edu/events/david-wasserstein-how-islam-saved-jews https://jewishstudies.stanford.edu/events/david-wasserstein-...

pessimizer 2y ago

Because all the aid for Israel comes back to arms dealers and other wealthy creeps in the US, and they own our politics. Israelis are just doing what their version of Judaism is telling them to do, it's the neocon Zionists in the US that finance it that are the real danger. It isn't just that they don't care about Palestinian lives, they don't care about Israeli lives, either. They care about Israeli contracts.

notaustinpowers 2y ago

Because of the 535 politicians we have, 45 of them have received donations just during the 2024 election cycle. Big names like Ted Cruz, Marsha Blackburn, Rick Scott, Mitt Romney, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, etc. It's bipartisan enough that I don't believe the parties will be able to come to an agreement to enact any meaningful change. This goes beyond the Republican vs. Democrat issues so it's much more difficult to make this a partisan issue to rally mass support from either party.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> How are those guys not treated as some hostile foreign power Americans’ views of the Israeli people are broadly positive [1]. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/05/30/how-americans-and-israelis-view-one-another-and-the-us-role-in-the-israel-hamas-war/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/05/30/how-ameri... 64%

jedimind 2y ago
That really doesn't mean much in a society that has perfected the art of manufacturing consent[0] "The survey puts numbers on trends that have become increasingly apparent: Cable news viewers are more supportive of Israel’s war effort, less likely to think Israel is committing war crimes, and less interested in the war in general. People who get their news primarily from social media, YouTube, or podcasts, by contrast, generally side with the Palestinians, believe Israel is committing war crimes and genocide, and consider the issue of significant importance. WE OFTEN HEAR people say that “Twitter isn’t real life” or that “Nobody watches cable news,” but the survey asked where people get most of their news, asking them to pick just one, and cable and social media won out. Most Americans do in fact get their news either primarily from cable (42 percent) or social media like TikTok, Instagram, or another platform (18 percent). A third of people said they get their news from YouTube or podcasts, with 13 percent saying they got most of their news that way. Asked generally where folks got their news on a day-to-day basis, with a “check all that apply” option, it’s even more clear how dominant cable (55 percent), social media (38 percent), and podcasts/YouTube (34) are compared to print, at 21 percent. (I read the survey as using “print” as a stand-in for any text-based media, whether digital like The Intercept or on actual printed paper.) " Even the polls you referenced show how stark the contrast between young and old americans are on this topic. Some of the older americans barely have any education on this topic but just stick with the zionist propaganda they were fed when they were younger, they couldn't even locate Israel/Palestine on a map. Most of the older christian zealots don't have the critical thinking skills or capacity to change their mind on the topic because their indoctrination is so thorough that they'd rather deny reality than face the facts. Not surprising considering they grew up on a mantra that the so called "chosen" people can do no wrong. I think if those christians who voted favorably had seen how israelis spit[3] on christians and assault[4][5] christians, their opinions would change swiftly, but the news channels they consume won't feed them this reality because consent needs to be manufactured. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent [1] https://theintercept.com/2024/04/30/gaza-israel-palestine-cable-news-poll/ https://theintercept.com/2024/04/30/gaza-israel-palestine-ca... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJNfKTO7XK8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJNfKTO7XK8 [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBdF3qyO2zU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBdF3qyO2zU [5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq28ZFNzaWM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq28ZFNzaWM

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

pedalpete 2y ago

So would you also expel Russian and Chinese embassy staff? Allies influencing other allies is part of the process. Don't just think that it is Israel doing it in America. America is also doing similar actions in other countries where they want to win favour.

protocolture 2y ago
Russians are pretty close I would think.
acdha 2y ago
> So would you also expel Russian and Chinese embassy staff? Yes? This happens periodically when someone is caught doing something outside of normal diplomatic duties.