7 ms·

> Can anyone tell me how is exactly this going to work out? Not to mention all the "expats" and "digital nomads" that are willing to pay whatever the landlord s

by diggan 2y ago

> Can anyone tell me how is exactly this going to work out? Not to mention all the "expats" and "digital nomads" that are willing to pay whatever the landlord says because they really really want to live here without thinking about the consequences, but that's another story. Slowly, more regulation is added to get the problem somewhat under control. Rents capped by index, annual rent increases cap, introduction of "tense housing markets", new upkeep for vacant properties, bonuses for renting out to younger people and more are being introduced, at least here in Catalunya. Unsure exactly what of those things are on the national level but guessing something similar is being introduced elsewhere in the country if it isn't already.

spaniard89277 2y ago
I don't think that helps honestly. What would help IMO is a lot of new housing close to jobs where foreigners can't apply. Because no matter how much you build, if someone from overseas is going to say "I pay double of whatever you've been offered" I can't compete. And I know that's happening because my Gf has to work with this sort of people, sadly.
- diggan 2y ago
  > I don't think that helps honestly. What would help IMO is a lot of new housing close to jobs where foreigners can't apply. Because no matter how much you build, if someone from overseas is going to say "I pay double of whatever you've been offered" I can't compete. But if the law blocks "I pay double of whatever you've been offered" from happening (which is true today, they cannot increase the rent to whatever they want), then you'd have a chance to compete because the competition is no longer about who can pay the most.
  - spaniard89277 2y ago
    No, because the landlord would either get the rest under the table or the competition would move onto risk profiles, where someone earning 4/5k month would beat any spaniard with our unstable and poorly paid jobs. In the end, we either do it like in Vienna or Singapore, or we're not going to solve it.
    - throwaway2037 2y ago
      Singapore, I know about: A huge amount of decent public housing. Is Vienna similar? Is there no political pressure in Spain to build more decent public housing?
      - spaniard89277 2y ago
        Vienna has a massive public, universal, rent system. Like 50% of the total housing stock. Everyone says they're going to make public housing here in Spain, nobody does anything.
        em-bee 2y ago
        more details on vienna: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40257927 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40257927
  - misja111 2y ago
    You're correct, the competition wouldn't be on rent prices anymore. But since the shortage of houses is not solved, competition would just move to some other area. E.g: which candidate does the landlord like the best, or who was on some waiting list for the most years, etc.
- ricardobayes 2y ago
  Technically we have that, it's called VPO.
misja111 2y ago
Really that won't help. These kind of regulations have been tried in so many countries before and the result is always the same: cap the rents => landlords will take houses from the markets and sell them instead => there will be a shortage of properties for rent so finding them will be very hard, and the few landlords left will be extremely selective when choosing from the many candidates. What does help: increase the supply. Make it easier to build or let houses by reducing bureaucracy, invest in housing projects etc.
- spaniard89277 2y ago
  Increasing supply won't work with places where the demand is virtually infinite. You have to cut the demand somehow, and in the case of Spain it means preventing foreigners to access such stock. That means public housing, or some law that creates a lot of friction. Cheaper housing in Spain will lead to induced demand, because there's just too many people willing to move here.
  - misja111 2y ago
    Yes you're right, reducing demand will also work. Which is exactly what capping rents won't do, this will actually increase demand ..
- account42 2y ago
  > Really that won't help. These kind of regulations have been tried in so many countries before and the result is always the same: cap the rents => landlords will take houses from the markets and sell them instead Good. Too many people are forced into renting due to insane property prices as is.
- piaste 2y ago
  > cap the rents => landlords will take houses from the markets and sell them instead => there will be a shortage of properties for rent Won't step 2 increase the supply of houses for sale, thus lowering the prices, thus decreasing the demand for rentals?

by diggan 2y ago

spaniard89277 2y ago

I don't think that helps honestly. What would help IMO is a lot of new housing close to jobs where foreigners can't apply. Because no matter how much you build, if someone from overseas is going to say "I pay double of whatever you've been offered" I can't compete. And I know that's happening because my Gf has to work with this sort of people, sadly.

diggan 2y ago
> I don't think that helps honestly. What would help IMO is a lot of new housing close to jobs where foreigners can't apply. Because no matter how much you build, if someone from overseas is going to say "I pay double of whatever you've been offered" I can't compete. But if the law blocks "I pay double of whatever you've been offered" from happening (which is true today, they cannot increase the rent to whatever they want), then you'd have a chance to compete because the competition is no longer about who can pay the most.
- spaniard89277 2y ago
  No, because the landlord would either get the rest under the table or the competition would move onto risk profiles, where someone earning 4/5k month would beat any spaniard with our unstable and poorly paid jobs. In the end, we either do it like in Vienna or Singapore, or we're not going to solve it.
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    Singapore, I know about: A huge amount of decent public housing. Is Vienna similar? Is there no political pressure in Spain to build more decent public housing?
    - spaniard89277 2y ago
      Vienna has a massive public, universal, rent system. Like 50% of the total housing stock. Everyone says they're going to make public housing here in Spain, nobody does anything.
      - em-bee 2y ago
        more details on vienna: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40257927 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40257927
- misja111 2y ago
  You're correct, the competition wouldn't be on rent prices anymore. But since the shortage of houses is not solved, competition would just move to some other area. E.g: which candidate does the landlord like the best, or who was on some waiting list for the most years, etc.
ricardobayes 2y ago
Technically we have that, it's called VPO.

misja111 2y ago

Really that won't help. These kind of regulations have been tried in so many countries before and the result is always the same: cap the rents => landlords will take houses from the markets and sell them instead => there will be a shortage of properties for rent so finding them will be very hard, and the few landlords left will be extremely selective when choosing from the many candidates. What does help: increase the supply. Make it easier to build or let houses by reducing bureaucracy, invest in housing projects etc.

spaniard89277 2y ago
Increasing supply won't work with places where the demand is virtually infinite. You have to cut the demand somehow, and in the case of Spain it means preventing foreigners to access such stock. That means public housing, or some law that creates a lot of friction. Cheaper housing in Spain will lead to induced demand, because there's just too many people willing to move here.
- misja111 2y ago
  Yes you're right, reducing demand will also work. Which is exactly what capping rents won't do, this will actually increase demand ..
account42 2y ago
> Really that won't help. These kind of regulations have been tried in so many countries before and the result is always the same: cap the rents => landlords will take houses from the markets and sell them instead Good. Too many people are forced into renting due to insane property prices as is.
piaste 2y ago
> cap the rents => landlords will take houses from the markets and sell them instead => there will be a shortage of properties for rent Won't step 2 increase the supply of houses for sale, thus lowering the prices, thus decreasing the demand for rentals?