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The 787 was not even a figment of the imagination in 2003. Boeing had JUST cancelled the Sonic Cruiser at the very end of 2002. The 787 was not launched until
by buildsjets 2y ago
The 787 was not even a figment of the imagination in 2003. Boeing had JUST cancelled the Sonic Cruiser at the very end of 2002. The 787 was not launched until mid 2004, a partially complete airframe was rolled out on 07/08/2007, then it was rolled right back in to be completed. First flight was in 2009, first delivery was 2011.
Also note that the 737 MAX launched in 2011. So Boeing was just coming off an airplane program that was completed 4 years late and 14 Billion dollars over budget, and a lot of engineering staff was still busy certifying the derivative (stretch) versions. So Boeing had neither the budget or the staff to launch an all new aircraft, and instead chose to do a quick-and-dirty re-engineing of an existing airframe. The poor quality of the design and manufacturing of the 737 MAX is directly attributable to a failure to execute the 787 program, leading to the MAX being under-resourced.
And let me tell you, the 787 was developed with just as many heritage Mcdonnell-Douglas personnel as Boeing personnel. John Hart-Smith, the Tech Fellow engineer who wrote the famous white paper decrying the level of outsourcing on the 787, always gets described as a "Boeing Engineer." He was at McDonnell-Douglass for nearly 30 years prior to getting a badge with a Boeing logo.
- buildsjets 2y agoA link to Hart-Smith's paper, "OUT-SOURCED PROFITS –THE CORNERSTONE OF SUCCESSFUL SUBCONTRACTING" It has been posted as a front page article on HN a few times but did not generate much discussion. Interestingly, although it was released 4 years post-merger and has Boeing markings on it, it was released in the heritage McDonnell-Douglas document management system, as indicated by the "MDC 00K0096" document number. https://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/2014130646.pdf https://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/2014130646...
- zerocrates 2y agoSince the paper's from 2001, did you mean previously to say that it decried the level of outsourcing on the DC-10 rather than the 787, the 787 being at "pre-figment" stage at that point? A fun little detail, the author approvingly cites a 737 redesign that accounts for additional work being done at the Wichita site in a section about internal outsourcing... of course that site would be spun out into the now-much-maligned Spirit AeroSystems a few years later.
- buildsjets 2y agoI did not mean to say that. At that time, Boeing was active in the development of the Sonic Cruiser, which was intended to be a high-subsonic M0.96 cruise aircraft. When this project was (thankfully!) cancelled at the end of 2002, all of the material technologies and business models were recycled to create the 787, intended to achieve higher fuel efficiency at standard cruise speeds. One of the recycled business models was an extraordinary degree of outsourcing. A fun detail for you, one of the reasons that Spirit was spun off was that when they were still a part of Boeing, they were forced to bid against external suppliers for contracts on the 787, including the design and fabrication of the engine installation. (Bare engines are procured from engine manufacturer, but the airframe manufacturer is typically responsible for the inlet cowl, fan cowls, thrust reverser, exhaust system, mounting strut, and a whole bunch of other claptrap such as fire detection and extinguishing.) They had done this quite successfully for all four different engine installations on the 777. An external supplier significantly underbid them, and Wichita did not receive the contract. What of course happened is that Boeing had full visibility of the Wichita bid and could evaluate their numbers to ensure that their estimate was valid, while the external supplier lied through their teeth about their capability and capacity, and successfully underbid and won the contract, then went late and over budget. This and several other contract losses spelled the end for Boeing Wichita. If Spirit is to be maligned, the blame needs to be placed at Boeing's feet.
- zerocrates 2y agoThanks for clarifying.