7 ms·

Among the many logical fallacies already pointed out. I would like to add one more. This assumes that Microsofts future IS windows. I don't believe that has

Among the many logical fallacies already pointed out. I would like to add one more. This assumes that Microsofts future IS windows. I don't believe that has been the case since Satya. And once you realize that you can see the future is very bright Regardless of some implementation gaff in a Windows feature.

TacticalCoder 2y ago
> This assumes that Microsofts future IS windows. Is Microsoft's future a smartphone OS that'll rival the iPhone or Android phones?
- malfist 2y ago
  No, I think microsoft's future is encyclopedia software
  - toast0 2y ago
    That and high end gaming tables.
causal 2y ago
Exactly. Windows is almost a loss leader at this point.
- mnau 2y ago
  Hell, .net is basically loss leader at this point (significant offloading to bunch of volunteers) and that is their ramp to Azure spending.
- Sammi 2y ago
  Is it even? Linux is just as good an on ramp to MS cloud as Windows. I cannot see how Windows is generating secondary income for MS. All their largest and growing money making products work just as well on Mac or Linux or the web.
toast0 2y ago
What is their proposed future then? It's not Xbox, they're losing that war, and it was based on Windows. It's not phones, they already lost that one and that was based on Windows anyways. It can't be Office; there's less and less of a need for a paid office suite, and MS Office in a browser is rather bad. It might be Azure, but IMHO the big onramp to Azure is Microsoft pushing corporations to move ActiveDirectory and Exchange into the cloud, but the end of Windows means the end of ActiveDirectory, and there's options for Cloud mail and calendar. Is Azure compelling for many if you're not already there because of Exchange? > And once you realize that you can see the future is very bright The future may be bright, but how will you know if there's no Windows to see it through? ;p
- mike_hearn 2y ago
  Less need for an office suite? Tell that to all the companies that are not only paying for Office but are now migrating from Slack to Teams, thus becoming even more dependent on it.
- Bluecobra 2y ago
  I thought for sure way back when the original Xbox came out that they were playing the really long game (no pun intended) to get a foothold and conquer the living room. After nearly 25 years I don't see that happening and it seems like they are going to end up going the Sega route and just develop software.
  - JohnMakin 2y ago
    Ironically, the fact that Xbox is so windows-friendly is exactly why I think its sales suffer and why they're going to end up just making software - for me as a gamer, I don't feel the need to own an xbox when I can play any xbox exclusive on my PC (and often with much better performance and peripherals). I can only play Playstation exclusive games on a Playstation, and the Playstation exclusives have been consistently very, very good. Pretty much everything on the Switch is exclusive to that console. So why would a budget-constrained person ever buy an Xbox?
    - 2y ago
gorjusborg 2y ago
Regardless of whether Microsoft == Windows, a company's brand matters, especially when trust is required for adoption of their new offerings. Microsoft had been trying, it seemed, to make their image more positive, with some positive results in recent years. Their recent decisions have revealed that their priorities are not very aligned with their users. The future may be bright, depending on their goals, but I have no interest in being a customer of a company that makes decisions that are so user hostile and frankly, idiotic.
giancarlostoro 2y ago
All they need to do to make Windows great is strip all of the crap nobody asked for. There's an insane amount of anti-patterns that are sketchy.
- AlexandrB 2y ago
  Windows is increasingly just a marketing channel for Microsoft to push their various other products. Unless your an enterprise/government customer the crap is the whole point.
  - giancarlostoro 2y ago
    Which is why I migrated to Linux. Proton by Steam plays all the games I care about. I can do all my dev work on Linux just fine.
- Freebytes 2y ago
  We need to create something that look better! Let us update a small set of applications one at a time and leave the others that look like they are from Windows 98 still in place. Years later, that look is old. We should update the look. But what about the other stuff we have not updated yet that is still old looking? We will get to it later. Meanwhile, you have three or four different layouts and designs and patterns throughout the system. It is crazy. They finally updated "System" to look like the rest of Windows, but if you click "Advanced System Settings", it still brings up the old System Properties. And it is crazy that the old one is still easier to navigate and find what you are trying to find.
DrBazza 2y ago
> This assumes that Microsofts future IS windows. > I don't believe that has been the case since Satya. Indeed. When MS has several multi-billion dollar streams of revenue - Office, Azure, XBox, game labels, and so on, and the "cloudy" part of computing is almost exclusively Linux, there's less compelling reasons for them to invest in Windows. With other moves like WSL, 'winget' and 'sudo', it's clear Windows is slowly moving towards a facade that mimics Linux from the CLI. In 2000, MS was Windows 9x, 2000, and Office. Consider that in 2004, you'd go to a site and download a Windows-only piece of software, and in 2024, you'll now find Apple-only software, or Linux only. Arguably, the 'year of the Linux(-like) desktop' has been MacOS for well over a decade. It's a gateway drug to full Linux, with very little friction in comparison to Windows (filesystem paths, Win32 api, etc.).
- donmcronald 2y ago
  > 'winget' IMO the main purpose for WinGet was to kill AppGet because MS doesn't want a 3rd party to control the package repository for an easy to use distribution system. As far as I can tell, custom WinGet repos need to be run on Azure, so MS basically has a stranglehold on distribution. If you publish anything they don't like they can label you as being malicious and ban your Azure account. Regardless, the friction to running your own repo is high and most people will capitulate and submit their apps to the official repo for approval (by MS). Big tech has been relentlessly locking down software distribution for the last decade and killing everything but the Windows Store, WinGet, etc. has to be a long term goal for MS.
mrweasel 2y ago
> This assumes that Microsofts future IS windows. That pretty much leaves the world with a defunct operating system running om 80% of all desktop and laptops. I'm not suggesting that you're wrong, in fact I'd agree that Windows has taken a backseat at Microsoft, but that's pretty scary. Given the new Exchange Server licensing, I think it's pretty safe to assume that Microsoft would like to exit the on-prem software business at the earliest convenient time. I just question if the world is ready for that, or that's even what we want.

TacticalCoder 2y ago

> This assumes that Microsofts future IS windows. Is Microsoft's future a smartphone OS that'll rival the iPhone or Android phones?

malfist 2y ago
No, I think microsoft's future is encyclopedia software
- toast0 2y ago
  That and high end gaming tables.

causal 2y ago

Exactly. Windows is almost a loss leader at this point.

mnau 2y ago
Hell, .net is basically loss leader at this point (significant offloading to bunch of volunteers) and that is their ramp to Azure spending.
Sammi 2y ago
Is it even? Linux is just as good an on ramp to MS cloud as Windows. I cannot see how Windows is generating secondary income for MS. All their largest and growing money making products work just as well on Mac or Linux or the web.

toast0 2y ago

What is their proposed future then? It's not Xbox, they're losing that war, and it was based on Windows. It's not phones, they already lost that one and that was based on Windows anyways. It can't be Office; there's less and less of a need for a paid office suite, and MS Office in a browser is rather bad. It might be Azure, but IMHO the big onramp to Azure is Microsoft pushing corporations to move ActiveDirectory and Exchange into the cloud, but the end of Windows means the end of ActiveDirectory, and there's options for Cloud mail and calendar. Is Azure compelling for many if you're not already there because of Exchange? > And once you realize that you can see the future is very bright The future may be bright, but how will you know if there's no Windows to see it through? ;p

mike_hearn 2y ago
Less need for an office suite? Tell that to all the companies that are not only paying for Office but are now migrating from Slack to Teams, thus becoming even more dependent on it.
Bluecobra 2y ago
I thought for sure way back when the original Xbox came out that they were playing the really long game (no pun intended) to get a foothold and conquer the living room. After nearly 25 years I don't see that happening and it seems like they are going to end up going the Sega route and just develop software.
- JohnMakin 2y ago
  Ironically, the fact that Xbox is so windows-friendly is exactly why I think its sales suffer and why they're going to end up just making software - for me as a gamer, I don't feel the need to own an xbox when I can play any xbox exclusive on my PC (and often with much better performance and peripherals). I can only play Playstation exclusive games on a Playstation, and the Playstation exclusives have been consistently very, very good. Pretty much everything on the Switch is exclusive to that console. So why would a budget-constrained person ever buy an Xbox?
  - 2y ago

gorjusborg 2y ago

Regardless of whether Microsoft == Windows, a company's brand matters, especially when trust is required for adoption of their new offerings. Microsoft had been trying, it seemed, to make their image more positive, with some positive results in recent years. Their recent decisions have revealed that their priorities are not very aligned with their users. The future may be bright, depending on their goals, but I have no interest in being a customer of a company that makes decisions that are so user hostile and frankly, idiotic.

giancarlostoro 2y ago

All they need to do to make Windows great is strip all of the crap nobody asked for. There's an insane amount of anti-patterns that are sketchy.

AlexandrB 2y ago
Windows is increasingly just a marketing channel for Microsoft to push their various other products. Unless your an enterprise/government customer the crap is the whole point.
- giancarlostoro 2y ago
  Which is why I migrated to Linux. Proton by Steam plays all the games I care about. I can do all my dev work on Linux just fine.
Freebytes 2y ago
We need to create something that look better! Let us update a small set of applications one at a time and leave the others that look like they are from Windows 98 still in place. Years later, that look is old. We should update the look. But what about the other stuff we have not updated yet that is still old looking? We will get to it later. Meanwhile, you have three or four different layouts and designs and patterns throughout the system. It is crazy. They finally updated "System" to look like the rest of Windows, but if you click "Advanced System Settings", it still brings up the old System Properties. And it is crazy that the old one is still easier to navigate and find what you are trying to find.

DrBazza 2y ago

> This assumes that Microsofts future IS windows. > I don't believe that has been the case since Satya. Indeed. When MS has several multi-billion dollar streams of revenue - Office, Azure, XBox, game labels, and so on, and the "cloudy" part of computing is almost exclusively Linux, there's less compelling reasons for them to invest in Windows. With other moves like WSL, 'winget' and 'sudo', it's clear Windows is slowly moving towards a facade that mimics Linux from the CLI. In 2000, MS was Windows 9x, 2000, and Office. Consider that in 2004, you'd go to a site and download a Windows-only piece of software, and in 2024, you'll now find Apple-only software, or Linux only. Arguably, the 'year of the Linux(-like) desktop' has been MacOS for well over a decade. It's a gateway drug to full Linux, with very little friction in comparison to Windows (filesystem paths, Win32 api, etc.).

donmcronald 2y ago
> 'winget' IMO the main purpose for WinGet was to kill AppGet because MS doesn't want a 3rd party to control the package repository for an easy to use distribution system. As far as I can tell, custom WinGet repos need to be run on Azure, so MS basically has a stranglehold on distribution. If you publish anything they don't like they can label you as being malicious and ban your Azure account. Regardless, the friction to running your own repo is high and most people will capitulate and submit their apps to the official repo for approval (by MS). Big tech has been relentlessly locking down software distribution for the last decade and killing everything but the Windows Store, WinGet, etc. has to be a long term goal for MS.

mrweasel 2y ago

> This assumes that Microsofts future IS windows. That pretty much leaves the world with a defunct operating system running om 80% of all desktop and laptops. I'm not suggesting that you're wrong, in fact I'd agree that Windows has taken a backseat at Microsoft, but that's pretty scary. Given the new Exchange Server licensing, I think it's pretty safe to assume that Microsoft would like to exit the on-prem software business at the earliest convenient time. I just question if the world is ready for that, or that's even what we want.