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Texas is not only viable as an independent nation, it is more viable as an independent nation than the overwhelming majority of independent nations. It would be

Texas is not only viable as an independent nation, it is more viable as an independent nation than the overwhelming majority of independent nations. It would be in the 95th percentile by land area, the 95th percentile by GDP, and the 90th percentile by proven oil reserves. Texas independence can't come soon enough!

tombert 2y ago
I don't really dispute any of the points you made here, though I do wonder how much of that is confounded by the fact that the federal government picks up a lot of the slack that an independent Texas would have to do themselves. The federal government handles the military, subsidizes a lot of education programs, and pays a large percentage of medical costs for the lower-income and elderly; if Texas split off on their own, they of course would be stuck footing the bill themselves. I'm not saying that they couldn't do it, I'm just curious to how much that actually messes with the numbers, and moreover I haven't really seen any compelling evidence that Texas being part of the USA has held them back.
- marcusverus 2y ago
  > The federal government picks up a lot of the slack that an independent Texas would have to do themselves... Federal money doesn't grow on a tree in D.C.--it comes from taxpayers in the several states! So while it's true that the Federal government would stop paying for these things, it's also true that Texans would stop paying Federal taxes. With this in mind, it's clear that Texas could easily afford to assume any and all federal obligations by replacing federal taxes with their own equivalent taxes. I've heard it said that Texas is a net recipient of Federal dollars, but only by 1-2%. Given that Texans will likely want a signaficantly smaller government, this can easily be covered via spending cuts. > I haven't really seen any compelling evidence that Texas being part of the USA has held them back. Texans are subject to federal law, which is regularly dicated to us by people from thousands of miles away, with whom we have little in common. If that's not being 'held back', what is?
  - tombert 2y ago
    > Federal money doesn't grow on a tree in D.C.--it comes from taxpayers in the several states! Sure, I'm not saying it's impossible, what I'm taking potential issue how accurate the numbers you provided are since it's possible that the reason that Texas has such a successful economy is because they're not directly paying for everything. I could be wrong, I'm not asserting anything, I'm just pointing out a potential confounding variable. > Texans are subject to federal law, which is regularly dicated to us by people from thousands of miles away, with whom we have little in common. If that's not being 'held back', what is? That's true of literally every state, so it's really not a Texas-specific problem. Which specific federal laws do you think are hindering Texas, outside of some vague notion that people in New York and DC "have little in common with you"? I'm not saying there aren't any, I'm actually curious, but this always seems like a sticking point that would come up when I lived in Texas and people would talk about the virtues of secession. I guess you could argue "gun laws", but even with that the US federal government offers considerable leeway to the states to handle that already.
    - marcusverus 2y ago
      > Sure, I'm not saying it's impossible, what I'm taking potential issue how accurate the numbers you provided are since it's possible that the reason that Texas has such a successful economy is because they're not directly paying for everything. It's not clear to me what you're saying here. What aren't we paying for? > That's true of literally every state, so it's really not a Texas-specific problem. It's not only true of every state, it's generally true of every breakaway region ever, in all of history! This commonality isn't an argument against Texas secession, it's an argument for local governance. > Which specific federal laws do you think are hindering Texas, outside of some vague notion that people in New York and DC "have little in common with you"? Things that are hindering Texas: > The sheer size of the federal union. It waters down our representation, reduces the feasibility of grassroots movements, and increases the power of mass media at the expense of the people. > All laws that infringe on the 2nd amendment. > All laws (or lack thereof) which permit government to infringe on the 1st amendment, or encourage private institutions to do the same. > All laws that empower the Feds to infringe on the 4th amendment (Patriot Act, etc), or to circumvent it (by buying data to spy on citizens without a warrant). > Federal control of our border, which they refuse to protect and which is irrevocably changing Texas demographics and politics, against the will of Texans. > The federal tax code, which is as much a progressive welfare program (see "refundable tax credits") as a revenue stream. > The federal bureaucracy in general, which is designed to provide jobs rather than serve the citizenry. > All laws which the Feds use to force state action, on threat of withholding state money (see Medicaid expansion, drinking age laws, etc). By withholding our own tax dollars as leverage, the Feds are, by definition, acting against state interests. > The high level of funding of the US military, which provides negligible benefit (beyond policing the seas), constantly gets us dragged into conflicts around the world and heightens the risk of WWIII. > The huge, ungainly, esoteric body of petty laws, which drive up the cost of business while adding negligible value, if any. The biggest issue of of all is that Texans no longer have faith in the ability of the Constitution to constrain the power of the Federal government. We no longer see the federal government as the guarantor of our natural human rights. We see it as the single greatest threat to them.
wumeow 2y ago
The chaos this would cause would destroy the United States, including Texas. China and Russia dream of this happening.
- marcusverus 2y ago
  Nonsense. The United States can survive just as well with 49 states as with 50. > China and Russia dream of this happening. Here I was thinking that Texans should strive for a government that best represents their values and protects the liberties they care about. Thank you for reminding me about what really matters--standing up to our common enemy--Eastsasia! Or was it Oceania?

tombert 2y ago

I don't really dispute any of the points you made here, though I do wonder how much of that is confounded by the fact that the federal government picks up a lot of the slack that an independent Texas would have to do themselves. The federal government handles the military, subsidizes a lot of education programs, and pays a large percentage of medical costs for the lower-income and elderly; if Texas split off on their own, they of course would be stuck footing the bill themselves. I'm not saying that they couldn't do it, I'm just curious to how much that actually messes with the numbers, and moreover I haven't really seen any compelling evidence that Texas being part of the USA has held them back.

marcusverus 2y ago
> The federal government picks up a lot of the slack that an independent Texas would have to do themselves... Federal money doesn't grow on a tree in D.C.--it comes from taxpayers in the several states! So while it's true that the Federal government would stop paying for these things, it's also true that Texans would stop paying Federal taxes. With this in mind, it's clear that Texas could easily afford to assume any and all federal obligations by replacing federal taxes with their own equivalent taxes. I've heard it said that Texas is a net recipient of Federal dollars, but only by 1-2%. Given that Texans will likely want a signaficantly smaller government, this can easily be covered via spending cuts. > I haven't really seen any compelling evidence that Texas being part of the USA has held them back. Texans are subject to federal law, which is regularly dicated to us by people from thousands of miles away, with whom we have little in common. If that's not being 'held back', what is?
- tombert 2y ago
  > Federal money doesn't grow on a tree in D.C.--it comes from taxpayers in the several states! Sure, I'm not saying it's impossible, what I'm taking potential issue how accurate the numbers you provided are since it's possible that the reason that Texas has such a successful economy is because they're not directly paying for everything. I could be wrong, I'm not asserting anything, I'm just pointing out a potential confounding variable. > Texans are subject to federal law, which is regularly dicated to us by people from thousands of miles away, with whom we have little in common. If that's not being 'held back', what is? That's true of literally every state, so it's really not a Texas-specific problem. Which specific federal laws do you think are hindering Texas, outside of some vague notion that people in New York and DC "have little in common with you"? I'm not saying there aren't any, I'm actually curious, but this always seems like a sticking point that would come up when I lived in Texas and people would talk about the virtues of secession. I guess you could argue "gun laws", but even with that the US federal government offers considerable leeway to the states to handle that already.
  - marcusverus 2y ago
    > Sure, I'm not saying it's impossible, what I'm taking potential issue how accurate the numbers you provided are since it's possible that the reason that Texas has such a successful economy is because they're not directly paying for everything. It's not clear to me what you're saying here. What aren't we paying for? > That's true of literally every state, so it's really not a Texas-specific problem. It's not only true of every state, it's generally true of every breakaway region ever, in all of history! This commonality isn't an argument against Texas secession, it's an argument for local governance. > Which specific federal laws do you think are hindering Texas, outside of some vague notion that people in New York and DC "have little in common with you"? Things that are hindering Texas: > The sheer size of the federal union. It waters down our representation, reduces the feasibility of grassroots movements, and increases the power of mass media at the expense of the people. > All laws that infringe on the 2nd amendment. > All laws (or lack thereof) which permit government to infringe on the 1st amendment, or encourage private institutions to do the same. > All laws that empower the Feds to infringe on the 4th amendment (Patriot Act, etc), or to circumvent it (by buying data to spy on citizens without a warrant). > Federal control of our border, which they refuse to protect and which is irrevocably changing Texas demographics and politics, against the will of Texans. > The federal tax code, which is as much a progressive welfare program (see "refundable tax credits") as a revenue stream. > The federal bureaucracy in general, which is designed to provide jobs rather than serve the citizenry. > All laws which the Feds use to force state action, on threat of withholding state money (see Medicaid expansion, drinking age laws, etc). By withholding our own tax dollars as leverage, the Feds are, by definition, acting against state interests. > The high level of funding of the US military, which provides negligible benefit (beyond policing the seas), constantly gets us dragged into conflicts around the world and heightens the risk of WWIII. > The huge, ungainly, esoteric body of petty laws, which drive up the cost of business while adding negligible value, if any. The biggest issue of of all is that Texans no longer have faith in the ability of the Constitution to constrain the power of the Federal government. We no longer see the federal government as the guarantor of our natural human rights. We see it as the single greatest threat to them.

wumeow 2y ago

The chaos this would cause would destroy the United States, including Texas. China and Russia dream of this happening.

marcusverus 2y ago
Nonsense. The United States can survive just as well with 49 states as with 50. > China and Russia dream of this happening. Here I was thinking that Texans should strive for a government that best represents their values and protects the liberties they care about. Thank you for reminding me about what really matters--standing up to our common enemy--Eastsasia! Or was it Oceania?