4 ms·

> Has anywhere emulated this though? London and Paris for example: [1], [2]. > Effort matters too Nothing except for safety and distance matters actually. Ev

by Mawr 2y ago

> Has anywhere emulated this though? London and Paris for example: [1], [2]. > Effort matters too Nothing except for safety and distance matters actually. Every other factor is minor. You just need to make cycling appear safe to the average person living in a city. The solution to that is obvious once you realize cars are the source of the unsafety. [1]: https://content.tfl.gov.uk/cycling-action-plan.pdf https://content.tfl.gov.uk/cycling-action-plan.pdf [2]: https://momentummag.com/paris-cycling-numbers-double/ https://momentummag.com/paris-cycling-numbers-double/

graemep 2y ago
Paris: doubles from what baseline? London: mostly projections that it will increase. If you look at the graph on page 14 the actual growth and the absolute numbers are small. Tiny compared to the tube: https://madeby.tfl.gov.uk/2019/07/29/tube-trivia-and-facts/ https://madeby.tfl.gov.uk/2019/07/29/tube-trivia-and-facts/ A little over 5m person kilometres travelled compared to 84m. The proportion of total travel (with car, bus, tram etc.) will be a lot lower. Huge expense (esp taking land use into account, and side effects such as making cars more polluting by increasing congestion) it does not look like a success to me. > Nothing except for safety and distance matters actually. Every other factor is minor. You just need to make cycling appear safe to the average person living in a city. Tell that to an unfit or elderly person trying to cycle uphill, or people with kids.
- sebstefan 2y ago
  >Tell that to an unfit or elderly person trying to cycle uphill, or people with kids. Why tell them anything? Having more options is not going to stop them from driving. They have elderly people and kids in the netherlands. When you oppose alternative modes of transportation, what do you tell: * The elderly * Kids (that half of the sentence when you mentioned "people with kids") * People with disabilities like spatial awareness, mental disabilities etc * People with other disabilities who would LOVE a cycle lane for their motorized wheelchairs * People who just aren't good at the wheel and who (thankfully) can't pass the driving test For them it's not a small drop in convenience, it's their whole life. "tell that to..." really doesn't go in the direction you think it goes. Driving is not an "accessible" form of transportation, and it's most likely one of the first things that could get taken away from you by a life event. It's not the right approach to start worrying about a slight decrease in convenience for those who somehow got a life event that'll allow them to drive, but not walk, use a wheelchair or bike.

by Mawr 2y ago

graemep 2y ago

Paris: doubles from what baseline? London: mostly projections that it will increase. If you look at the graph on page 14 the actual growth and the absolute numbers are small. Tiny compared to the tube: https://madeby.tfl.gov.uk/2019/07/29/tube-trivia-and-facts/ https://madeby.tfl.gov.uk/2019/07/29/tube-trivia-and-facts/ A little over 5m person kilometres travelled compared to 84m. The proportion of total travel (with car, bus, tram etc.) will be a lot lower. Huge expense (esp taking land use into account, and side effects such as making cars more polluting by increasing congestion) it does not look like a success to me. > Nothing except for safety and distance matters actually. Every other factor is minor. You just need to make cycling appear safe to the average person living in a city. Tell that to an unfit or elderly person trying to cycle uphill, or people with kids.

sebstefan 2y ago
>Tell that to an unfit or elderly person trying to cycle uphill, or people with kids. Why tell them anything? Having more options is not going to stop them from driving. They have elderly people and kids in the netherlands. When you oppose alternative modes of transportation, what do you tell: * The elderly * Kids (that half of the sentence when you mentioned "people with kids") * People with disabilities like spatial awareness, mental disabilities etc * People with other disabilities who would LOVE a cycle lane for their motorized wheelchairs * People who just aren't good at the wheel and who (thankfully) can't pass the driving test For them it's not a small drop in convenience, it's their whole life. "tell that to..." really doesn't go in the direction you think it goes. Driving is not an "accessible" form of transportation, and it's most likely one of the first things that could get taken away from you by a life event. It's not the right approach to start worrying about a slight decrease in convenience for those who somehow got a life event that'll allow them to drive, but not walk, use a wheelchair or bike.