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This seems to be a continuation of the whole Daihatsu bullshit storm, and doesn't effect us Americans, and from what I can tell, doesn't effect domestic Japanes

This seems to be a continuation of the whole Daihatsu bullshit storm, and doesn't effect us Americans, and from what I can tell, doesn't effect domestic Japanese models either. From the article: "Japanese carmakers Honda, Mazda and Suzuki are also due to be inspected by the authorities over the same issue."; those are all major Daihatsu customers pre-Toyota acquisition. Toyota is essentially being forced to fall on a sword they acquired and no actual corporate wrongdoing (by American standards) seem to have occurred by Toyota executives; all the fault seems to lie entirely at Daihatsu's feet. Sucks, because a lot of people are going to shy away from what is probably the best car brand in the US, and the only major car company left manufacturing US market cars in the US. (Why do I specifically phrase it that way? The Big 3 sell most of their US-made cars in Europe with the only actually notable exception being some members of the F150 series; almost all of the Toyota cars sold in the NA market are US and Canadian made.)

nottorp 2y ago
I kinda liked the Yaris Cross (from the outside, haven't even considered a test drive yet). Anyone can summarize what was so wrong with it that they stopped manufacturing for now?
- padthai 2y ago
  I have one, everything seems fine but I have not crashed it yet.
Dalewyn 2y ago
>and from what I can tell, doesn't effect domestic Japanese models either. This controversy is literally Japanese car makers falsifying test data to obtain government certification for models sold in Japan. I won't blame the US DoT if they feel like also taking a magnifying glass.
- DiabloD3 2y ago
  Domestic Japanese cars currently sold, from what I can tell, do not use engines produced by Daihatsu. They seem to have moved entirely away from them about a decade ago. Where Toyota still uses them are export models and models made domestically in Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand, and Vietnam. Under Japanese law, Toyota is guilty because Japanese plants made engines that do not comply with Japanese laws, but the engines are not to be used in Japan. Japanese corporate culture is very different than America's, and they consider this a form of wrongdoing. Although Toyota has been a long term investor in Daihatsu (starting in 1967 and crossing the 50% threshold in 1998; they were approached by Daihatsu's lenders and the Japanese government to help strengthen the post-war car industry to make this investment), they remained an independent company until 2016. All of Daihatsu's apparent crimes all point to being pre-2016.
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    You really need to do your homework. Wow. This controversy involves Toyota and others falsifying collision safety data, noise data, among many others tested during government certification. Among the models implicated are Toyota's Corolla, by far one of their most popular models. Honda has twenty two models suspected of falsifying data, the most out of the five manufacturers implicated. Daihatsu engines aren't even the tip of the iceberg at this point.
    - DiabloD3 2y ago
      If you're correct, then we're looking at the repeat of the whole VW diesel-gate. Unfortunately, VW is still in business. Something like $30-40B? globally in fines, they still sell diesel and ICE cars, people aren't lining up to buy electric cars (thanks to Elon fucking over the entire industry with his ridiculous bullshit). Japan didn't blow the lid off the real estate scam in the 1980s, leading to what started as the "lost decade" and is now becoming the "lost generation", I doubt they're torpedo one of their largest export industries and it's just going to push them further into Great Depression-levels of kicking the can down the road until its too late to fix it. Akio Toyoda and his apparent co-conspirators across the industry won't be fired, won't see jail time, although it may lead to a shuffle in the executive positions to appease the government.
smarm52 2y ago
> Sucks, because a lot of people are going to shy away from what is probably the best car brand in the US So, what you're saying is, now is a good time to get ready to buy a Toyota when the price drops, when demand drops.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- eru 2y ago
  Unless the expected recovery is already priced in?
makeitdouble 2y ago
> and no actual corporate wrongdoing (by American standards) seem to have occurred by Toyota executives; Toyota was overseeing part of these processes, and actively monitored the running of Daihatsu. A press release at the time Daihatsu came under Toyota's umbrella: https://global.toyota/en/detail/11038357 https://global.toyota/en/detail/11038357 That's one case where wee can read about those wonderful synergies, and translate it directly to "Daihatsu and Toyota fucked up hand in hand"
EasyMark 2y ago
I highly doubt many people will even hear about stuff like this, much less care about it. I know I would be just as likely to buy a toyota tomorrow after reading this story, because I've owned them before and they tend to make great cars for a decent price.
sofixa 2y ago
> The Big 3 sell most of their US-made cars in Europe with the only actually notable exception being some members of the F150 series; almost all of the Toyota cars sold in the NA market are US and Canadian made What? First, one of the "US big 3" is Stellantis, which is an European company with significant holdings and market share in the US (Fiat having bought Chrysler, and the two of them later merged with PSA (Peugeot, Citroen, Opel/Vauxhall)). They sell most of their vehicles in Europe because that's where most of their brands and customers and manufacturing is. Funnily last time I was in the US I saw a surprising number Ram vans which are just rebadged Fiat Ducato/Peugeot Boxer/Citroen Jumper. Second, General Motors doesn't really operate in Europe anymore after selling Opel to PSA, only a few niche sport models. The third "big three", Ford, has a completely different lineup in Europe because Ford Europe operates quite separately, and was the origin of most smaller than a massive pickup truck Ford designs (Focus, Fiesta, Kuga, Ka etc.), some of which Ford imported to sell to the US market, but none of which were successful. Ford US sells trucks, Ford Europe sells normal cars, compact SUVs and small vans (Ford Transit Connect, which is better than trucks at 90% of what trucks supposedly are for).
MaKey 2y ago
> This seems to be a continuation of the whole Daihatsu bullshit storm, and doesn't effect us Americans, and from what I can tell, doesn't effect domestic Japanese models either. Minor complaint: Affect, not effect, is the correct word here.

nottorp 2y ago

I kinda liked the Yaris Cross (from the outside, haven't even considered a test drive yet). Anyone can summarize what was so wrong with it that they stopped manufacturing for now?

padthai 2y ago
I have one, everything seems fine but I have not crashed it yet.

Dalewyn 2y ago

>and from what I can tell, doesn't effect domestic Japanese models either. This controversy is literally Japanese car makers falsifying test data to obtain government certification for models sold in Japan. I won't blame the US DoT if they feel like also taking a magnifying glass.

DiabloD3 2y ago
Domestic Japanese cars currently sold, from what I can tell, do not use engines produced by Daihatsu. They seem to have moved entirely away from them about a decade ago. Where Toyota still uses them are export models and models made domestically in Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand, and Vietnam. Under Japanese law, Toyota is guilty because Japanese plants made engines that do not comply with Japanese laws, but the engines are not to be used in Japan. Japanese corporate culture is very different than America's, and they consider this a form of wrongdoing. Although Toyota has been a long term investor in Daihatsu (starting in 1967 and crossing the 50% threshold in 1998; they were approached by Daihatsu's lenders and the Japanese government to help strengthen the post-war car industry to make this investment), they remained an independent company until 2016. All of Daihatsu's apparent crimes all point to being pre-2016.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  You really need to do your homework. Wow. This controversy involves Toyota and others falsifying collision safety data, noise data, among many others tested during government certification. Among the models implicated are Toyota's Corolla, by far one of their most popular models. Honda has twenty two models suspected of falsifying data, the most out of the five manufacturers implicated. Daihatsu engines aren't even the tip of the iceberg at this point.
  - DiabloD3 2y ago
    If you're correct, then we're looking at the repeat of the whole VW diesel-gate. Unfortunately, VW is still in business. Something like $30-40B? globally in fines, they still sell diesel and ICE cars, people aren't lining up to buy electric cars (thanks to Elon fucking over the entire industry with his ridiculous bullshit). Japan didn't blow the lid off the real estate scam in the 1980s, leading to what started as the "lost decade" and is now becoming the "lost generation", I doubt they're torpedo one of their largest export industries and it's just going to push them further into Great Depression-levels of kicking the can down the road until its too late to fix it. Akio Toyoda and his apparent co-conspirators across the industry won't be fired, won't see jail time, although it may lead to a shuffle in the executive positions to appease the government.

smarm52 2y ago

> Sucks, because a lot of people are going to shy away from what is probably the best car brand in the US So, what you're saying is, now is a good time to get ready to buy a Toyota when the price drops, when demand drops.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
eru 2y ago
Unless the expected recovery is already priced in?

makeitdouble 2y ago

> and no actual corporate wrongdoing (by American standards) seem to have occurred by Toyota executives; Toyota was overseeing part of these processes, and actively monitored the running of Daihatsu. A press release at the time Daihatsu came under Toyota's umbrella: https://global.toyota/en/detail/11038357 https://global.toyota/en/detail/11038357 That's one case where wee can read about those wonderful synergies, and translate it directly to "Daihatsu and Toyota fucked up hand in hand"

EasyMark 2y ago

I highly doubt many people will even hear about stuff like this, much less care about it. I know I would be just as likely to buy a toyota tomorrow after reading this story, because I've owned them before and they tend to make great cars for a decent price.

sofixa 2y ago

> The Big 3 sell most of their US-made cars in Europe with the only actually notable exception being some members of the F150 series; almost all of the Toyota cars sold in the NA market are US and Canadian made What? First, one of the "US big 3" is Stellantis, which is an European company with significant holdings and market share in the US (Fiat having bought Chrysler, and the two of them later merged with PSA (Peugeot, Citroen, Opel/Vauxhall)). They sell most of their vehicles in Europe because that's where most of their brands and customers and manufacturing is. Funnily last time I was in the US I saw a surprising number Ram vans which are just rebadged Fiat Ducato/Peugeot Boxer/Citroen Jumper. Second, General Motors doesn't really operate in Europe anymore after selling Opel to PSA, only a few niche sport models. The third "big three", Ford, has a completely different lineup in Europe because Ford Europe operates quite separately, and was the origin of most smaller than a massive pickup truck Ford designs (Focus, Fiesta, Kuga, Ka etc.), some of which Ford imported to sell to the US market, but none of which were successful. Ford US sells trucks, Ford Europe sells normal cars, compact SUVs and small vans (Ford Transit Connect, which is better than trucks at 90% of what trucks supposedly are for).

MaKey 2y ago

> This seems to be a continuation of the whole Daihatsu bullshit storm, and doesn't effect us Americans, and from what I can tell, doesn't effect domestic Japanese models either. Minor complaint: Affect, not effect, is the correct word here.