4 ms·

Brazil has recently surpassed Italy in terms of GDP

30 points by wslh 2y ago

vishalontheline 2y ago
200 million and young vs 60 million people and old.
- Beijinger 2y ago
  well, Brazil is big. https://www.gmexconsulting.com/cms/brazil-is-big/ https://www.gmexconsulting.com/cms/brazil-is-big/ At least for Europeans.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  I wonder what causes Brasil to have a much higher birthrate than Italy? GDP/capita and HDI Indexes would have you believe it should be the other way around. Is real estate super cheap in Brasil? Does the state do something to stimulate baby making? Or are Brazilians just going at it without caring?
  - dachworker 2y ago
    Birth rates correlate inversely with security/safety. War torn countries and poor countries have high birth rates. Safe and secure countries have low birth rates.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      >War torn countries and poor countries have high birth rates. IDK about that. Are birth rates exploding in Russia and Ukraine in the past couple of years? From my PoV, reproduction rate also has a lot to do with education.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
  Also salaries have gone down in the last 20 years, from my understanding, instead of up. Which is a horrible signal.
killingtime74 2y ago
GDP per capita is less than 1/3.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  Which itself is not a measurement of development/welfare per capita. Having a higher GDP/capita than another country doesn't automatically translate to more money in your pocket for you or a higher standard of living.
  - retrac 2y ago
    True. But it is pretty darn closely correlated: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-development-index-vs-gdp-per-capita https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-development-index-v...
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  It’s not always a great metric to use. For instance in India the buying power of $1 is 3.5 times that of the United States because everyday goods and housing are so cheap. A lot of the lower middle class have 20-30 rupee lunches everyday which works out to about $0.25. These are relatively substantial meals with flatbread, a vegetable dish and an egg or two.
  - pb7 2y ago
    >These are relatively substantial meals with flatbread, a vegetable dish and an egg or two. That is not substantial by developed country standards. I have seen these meals be served and among other factors that contribute to the low price, the hygiene standards (or lack thereof) are horrific.
    - FredPret 2y ago
      Travelling around the world, I have found this to be true: you get what you pay for. When currency differences makes something like a haircut or a lunch very cheap for a North American, there’s always a tradeoff involved. Of course the concept of PPP makes sense, but it’s still partly nonsense in assuming equal quality around the world.
neves 2y ago
Under Lula, Brazil have a government again.
- mdp2021 2y ago
  Sorry, but a stub so phrased cannot teach us anything substantial.
  - burgerzzz 2y ago
    Yes, how did Lula pull Brazil out their economic mess?
    - r00fus 2y ago
      From das wiki: During his two terms in office, he undertook reforms which eventually led to growth in GDP, reduction in public debt and inflation, and helping 20 million Brazilians escape poverty. He is the most popular politician in Brazil and one of the most popular in the world. He didn’t get there by corruption.
      - unmole 2y ago
        His first term coincided with the commodity boom triggered by demand from a rising China. The growth was primarily down to luck.
        r00fus 2y ago
        Growth yes, the systemic changes to share that growth among the populace, no. That was his legacy.
        neves 2y ago
        Bolsonaro had a commodity boom and transferred wealth to the Brazilian rich. Fernando Henrique Cardoso also had a commodity boom. Lula uses the commodity boom to enrich all population. A non radical international politic also helps. Bolsonaro fought with Chine, our main commercial partner
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dachworker 2y ago
The real story is that all the big economies of Europe are stagnant.
- lobocinza 2y ago
  Yep. Also GDP is not a good metric for prosperity. When governments print more money and increase government expenditure like Brazil is doing right now it leads to an increase in the GDP which by no means mean that the economy is doing good and the country is more prosperous. Actually the country is facing an inflationary surge due to those policies and people are seeing their purchasing power being disintegrated.
oh_nice_marmot 2y ago
The main factors for Brazil's growth have nothing to do with size of population alone, there are other countries with similar population that are not on same level. A combination of social policies, fiscal responsibility (or a semblance of it compared to other countries), agro business being the locomotive, a resurgence of heavy industry coupled with Gov. backing (aero/space, oil refineries, etc) and family consumption have helped the country recently. The current president, and his party, deserves credit for many of those achievements but not all. Let's remember that this is a process that started on the 90s and, yes, accelerated under the current president and his party. Not all have been roses and there is plenty of criticism but it is a change of pace that was much needed. If not been for the disastrous policies, COVID being the prime example, of the previous administration which turned the economy and politics upside down the country would be further ahead now. I would say we are back where we were, also 8th economy, We still face many issues: dysfunctional congress, high inequality which leads to violence. But in general, I'd say, we are on the right path.
- wslh 2y ago
  Great to talk to a Brazilian with a "HN mindset". I have Brazilians in my team and have done business there (including Agrotoken [1]) which prioritized focus in that a agricultural business there. Having said so and comparing to Latam, I found Brazil state institutions such as the central bank and justice branch much more stable, and independent beyond the specific policies and political wing past governments had. Another example is the Pix payment system [1] which would be the envy of other countries. In a nutshell, Brasil could seem slow in many aspects but doing firm actions. I am leaving aside the talk about poverty, climate change, etc which I think deserves a separate discussion and should be extended to many other countries. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pix_(payment_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pix_(payment_system) [1] https://www.agrotoken.com/en/home https://www.agrotoken.com/en/home

30 points by wslh 2y ago

vishalontheline 2y ago

200 million and young vs 60 million people and old.

Beijinger 2y ago
well, Brazil is big. https://www.gmexconsulting.com/cms/brazil-is-big/ https://www.gmexconsulting.com/cms/brazil-is-big/ At least for Europeans.
Rinzler89 2y ago
I wonder what causes Brasil to have a much higher birthrate than Italy? GDP/capita and HDI Indexes would have you believe it should be the other way around. Is real estate super cheap in Brasil? Does the state do something to stimulate baby making? Or are Brazilians just going at it without caring?
- dachworker 2y ago
  Birth rates correlate inversely with security/safety. War torn countries and poor countries have high birth rates. Safe and secure countries have low birth rates.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    >War torn countries and poor countries have high birth rates. IDK about that. Are birth rates exploding in Russia and Ukraine in the past couple of years? From my PoV, reproduction rate also has a lot to do with education.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
Also salaries have gone down in the last 20 years, from my understanding, instead of up. Which is a horrible signal.

killingtime74 2y ago

GDP per capita is less than 1/3.

Rinzler89 2y ago
Which itself is not a measurement of development/welfare per capita. Having a higher GDP/capita than another country doesn't automatically translate to more money in your pocket for you or a higher standard of living.
- retrac 2y ago
  True. But it is pretty darn closely correlated: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-development-index-vs-gdp-per-capita https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-development-index-v...
dyauspitr 2y ago
It’s not always a great metric to use. For instance in India the buying power of $1 is 3.5 times that of the United States because everyday goods and housing are so cheap. A lot of the lower middle class have 20-30 rupee lunches everyday which works out to about $0.25. These are relatively substantial meals with flatbread, a vegetable dish and an egg or two.
- pb7 2y ago
  >These are relatively substantial meals with flatbread, a vegetable dish and an egg or two. That is not substantial by developed country standards. I have seen these meals be served and among other factors that contribute to the low price, the hygiene standards (or lack thereof) are horrific.
  - FredPret 2y ago
    Travelling around the world, I have found this to be true: you get what you pay for. When currency differences makes something like a haircut or a lunch very cheap for a North American, there’s always a tradeoff involved. Of course the concept of PPP makes sense, but it’s still partly nonsense in assuming equal quality around the world.

neves 2y ago

Under Lula, Brazil have a government again.

mdp2021 2y ago
Sorry, but a stub so phrased cannot teach us anything substantial.
- burgerzzz 2y ago
  Yes, how did Lula pull Brazil out their economic mess?
  - r00fus 2y ago
    From das wiki: During his two terms in office, he undertook reforms which eventually led to growth in GDP, reduction in public debt and inflation, and helping 20 million Brazilians escape poverty. He is the most popular politician in Brazil and one of the most popular in the world. He didn’t get there by corruption.
    - unmole 2y ago
      His first term coincided with the commodity boom triggered by demand from a rising China. The growth was primarily down to luck.
      - r00fus 2y ago
        Growth yes, the systemic changes to share that growth among the populace, no. That was his legacy.
      - neves 2y ago
        Bolsonaro had a commodity boom and transferred wealth to the Brazilian rich. Fernando Henrique Cardoso also had a commodity boom. Lula uses the commodity boom to enrich all population. A non radical international politic also helps. Bolsonaro fought with Chine, our main commercial partner

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

dachworker 2y ago

The real story is that all the big economies of Europe are stagnant.

lobocinza 2y ago
Yep. Also GDP is not a good metric for prosperity. When governments print more money and increase government expenditure like Brazil is doing right now it leads to an increase in the GDP which by no means mean that the economy is doing good and the country is more prosperous. Actually the country is facing an inflationary surge due to those policies and people are seeing their purchasing power being disintegrated.

oh_nice_marmot 2y ago

The main factors for Brazil's growth have nothing to do with size of population alone, there are other countries with similar population that are not on same level. A combination of social policies, fiscal responsibility (or a semblance of it compared to other countries), agro business being the locomotive, a resurgence of heavy industry coupled with Gov. backing (aero/space, oil refineries, etc) and family consumption have helped the country recently. The current president, and his party, deserves credit for many of those achievements but not all. Let's remember that this is a process that started on the 90s and, yes, accelerated under the current president and his party. Not all have been roses and there is plenty of criticism but it is a change of pace that was much needed. If not been for the disastrous policies, COVID being the prime example, of the previous administration which turned the economy and politics upside down the country would be further ahead now. I would say we are back where we were, also 8th economy, We still face many issues: dysfunctional congress, high inequality which leads to violence. But in general, I'd say, we are on the right path.

wslh 2y ago
Great to talk to a Brazilian with a "HN mindset". I have Brazilians in my team and have done business there (including Agrotoken [1]) which prioritized focus in that a agricultural business there. Having said so and comparing to Latam, I found Brazil state institutions such as the central bank and justice branch much more stable, and independent beyond the specific policies and political wing past governments had. Another example is the Pix payment system [1] which would be the envy of other countries. In a nutshell, Brasil could seem slow in many aspects but doing firm actions. I am leaving aside the talk about poverty, climate change, etc which I think deserves a separate discussion and should be extended to many other countries. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pix_(payment_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pix_(payment_system) [1] https://www.agrotoken.com/en/home https://www.agrotoken.com/en/home