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The Wii console had RSA logos pretty prominently in the package, I think that suggests that Nintendo contracted or partnered with them to build and implement th

The Wii console had RSA logos pretty prominently in the package, I think that suggests that Nintendo contracted or partnered with them to build and implement this scheme.

kmeisthax 2y ago
AFAIK the Wii had hardware crypto in the GPU's IO controller and that's where most of it's DRM happens. Wouldn't be surprised if they licensed the hardware block from RSA. The DS also had the same logo AFAIK but the way the DS and 3DS handled DRM is completely different from the Wii. For context: the Wii is pretty much a split-brain system. Games run "OS-less" on the PPC, but the IO controller is responsible for, among other things, starting and sandboxing them. Whenever the Wii needs to launch software, the IO controller loads the appropriate code from either the DVD drive or the NAND, then reboots both the main CPU and, if necessary[2], itself. The system menu you're used to interacting with is just a built-in game installed into title slot 0x0000000100000002 (1-2), and that's why the Wii's system software was so primitive. The Wii's DRM scheme is a derivative of the one used in the iQue[1], which was designed by BroadOn (originally RouteFree, later iGware, finally Acer Cloud Computing). RouteFree itself was founded by Dr. Wei Yen, an ex-ArtX[3], ex-SGI[4] guy who is basically responsible for a good chunk of Nintendo history. The 3DS used, as far as I'm aware, almost none of the code developed for the Wii, mainly because it was a house of cards anyway. [0] Not to be confused with Apple iOS or Cisco IOS. [1] Imagine an N64 with the Wii Shop Channel, but everything's in Chinese. [2] Wii games are built and run to work with a specific major version of the IO controller firmware, and the IO controller will downgrade itself to match the game. This is even user visible. You know the little animation on the disc slot light? If you play a really old game and your Wii gets a push notification, it will actually play the old version of the animation. [3] Company that built the GameCube GPU before being bought out by ATI, which is why the Wii had an ATI logo on it [4] Company that built almost the entire N64.
- pezezin 2y ago
  > [3] Company that built the GameCube GPU before being bought out by ATI, which is why the Wii had an ATI logo on it The Gamecube also has the ATI logo on it, it features prominently on the bottom right corner of the front side.
- phire 2y ago
  > Wouldn't be surprised if they licensed the hardware block from RSA. The only hardware crypto blocks the Wii had were SHA and AES, there wasn't a hardware RSA block. Which makes sense, it had to run both SHA and AES over large blocks of data; But RSA was only ever used on small amounts of data to verify tickets, and only when launching a new title. I'm not sure what they licensed from RSA. The patents for RSA had already expired, so maybe the code?
  - yuriks 2y ago
    They probably meant RSA the company (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_Security https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_Security), which was founded by the inventors of the algorithm, but has sold various other crypto devices and algorithms over the years, though I don't know if they ever sold hardware IP cores, and haven't been able to find anything about it. I feel like it's more likely they licensed patents or maybe code from them though.
Jasper_ 2y ago
no, lol. It's a custom version of RSA complete with basically every "baby's first crypto" bug, and more. https://github.com/iversonjimmy/acer_cloud_wifi_copy/blob/f7459f5d28056fa3884720cbd891d77e0b00698b/sw_x/gvm_core/internal/csl/src/cslrsa.c#L90 https://github.com/iversonjimmy/acer_cloud_wifi_copy/blob/f7...

The Wii console had RSA logos pretty prominently in the package, I think that suggests that Nintendo contracted or partnered with them to build and implement this scheme.

kmeisthax 2y ago

AFAIK the Wii had hardware crypto in the GPU's IO controller and that's where most of it's DRM happens. Wouldn't be surprised if they licensed the hardware block from RSA. The DS also had the same logo AFAIK but the way the DS and 3DS handled DRM is completely different from the Wii. For context: the Wii is pretty much a split-brain system. Games run "OS-less" on the PPC, but the IO controller is responsible for, among other things, starting and sandboxing them. Whenever the Wii needs to launch software, the IO controller loads the appropriate code from either the DVD drive or the NAND, then reboots both the main CPU and, if necessary[2], itself. The system menu you're used to interacting with is just a built-in game installed into title slot 0x0000000100000002 (1-2), and that's why the Wii's system software was so primitive. The Wii's DRM scheme is a derivative of the one used in the iQue[1], which was designed by BroadOn (originally RouteFree, later iGware, finally Acer Cloud Computing). RouteFree itself was founded by Dr. Wei Yen, an ex-ArtX[3], ex-SGI[4] guy who is basically responsible for a good chunk of Nintendo history. The 3DS used, as far as I'm aware, almost none of the code developed for the Wii, mainly because it was a house of cards anyway. [0] Not to be confused with Apple iOS or Cisco IOS. [1] Imagine an N64 with the Wii Shop Channel, but everything's in Chinese. [2] Wii games are built and run to work with a specific major version of the IO controller firmware, and the IO controller will downgrade itself to match the game. This is even user visible. You know the little animation on the disc slot light? If you play a really old game and your Wii gets a push notification, it will actually play the old version of the animation. [3] Company that built the GameCube GPU before being bought out by ATI, which is why the Wii had an ATI logo on it [4] Company that built almost the entire N64.

pezezin 2y ago
> [3] Company that built the GameCube GPU before being bought out by ATI, which is why the Wii had an ATI logo on it The Gamecube also has the ATI logo on it, it features prominently on the bottom right corner of the front side.
phire 2y ago
> Wouldn't be surprised if they licensed the hardware block from RSA. The only hardware crypto blocks the Wii had were SHA and AES, there wasn't a hardware RSA block. Which makes sense, it had to run both SHA and AES over large blocks of data; But RSA was only ever used on small amounts of data to verify tickets, and only when launching a new title. I'm not sure what they licensed from RSA. The patents for RSA had already expired, so maybe the code?
- yuriks 2y ago
  They probably meant RSA the company (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_Security https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_Security), which was founded by the inventors of the algorithm, but has sold various other crypto devices and algorithms over the years, though I don't know if they ever sold hardware IP cores, and haven't been able to find anything about it. I feel like it's more likely they licensed patents or maybe code from them though.

Jasper_ 2y ago

no, lol. It's a custom version of RSA complete with basically every "baby's first crypto" bug, and more. https://github.com/iversonjimmy/acer_cloud_wifi_copy/blob/f7459f5d28056fa3884720cbd891d77e0b00698b/sw_x/gvm_core/internal/csl/src/cslrsa.c#L90 https://github.com/iversonjimmy/acer_cloud_wifi_copy/blob/f7...