4 ms·

Looking at the derivatives of employment in isolation is deceptive

jobseeker995 2y ago
This correlates with my recent experience trying the SWE job market (in the U.S.) Only offer I got was a lowball. Received a surprising number of rejections on technical interviews. 3-4 rounds is common. The bar today is set significantly higher than it was in past job searches. Most teams where I work are only hiring for staff and occasionally senior. Overall - not a candidates' market.
- tossandthrow 2y ago
  > Only offer I got was a lowball. Maybe expectations are unreasonable? I a high interest environment we will see more compression. Ie. Fewer multiples between the lowest paid people and the highest paid people (median for a role).
  - jobseeker995 2y ago
    > Fewer multiples between the lowest paid people and the highest paid people This will of course cause their good devs to leave, but I guess these days companies are trying to innovate in AI rather than software dev. Once the AI bubble bursts I doubt we'll see a reset back to pure software dev being prestigious/highly paid. Thinking about a career change honestly.
    - tossandthrow 2y ago
      Leave to where? Salary for the highest paid people is a comparative good. If I pay you 10x you current salary I don't get 10x the innovation. Also, compression also means that the slowest paid people can get salary increases (to cover the increased mortgage costs) - it will be a mix. (not entirely knowing your own situation, not taking a "low ball" offer can leave you worse of, if the alternative is no income.)
    - mattgreenrocks 2y ago
      I think it's shifting towards being bimodal. See this for discussion: https://danluu.com/bimodal-compensation/ https://danluu.com/bimodal-compensation/ The transition is awkward as you'd expect, and jobs are stratifying.
      - coffeecloud 2y ago
        Shifting? IME comp has been FAANG/Not FAANG for the last 15 years with the two peaks in the distribution being pretty tight.
    - spamizbad 2y ago
      The pay is largely going to be set by demand. But also: The sector has been ramping up salaries since the mid aughts, and I've found different people have different ideas of what the inflection point was in technology where it become prestigious/highly paid. For me, I feel like things really heated up in the the 2010s. But there are others who I think would walk away from this industry if they got paid, adjusted for inflation, like it was 2015. As someone who cut their teeth in the wake of the dotcom crash, I look at the early 2010s as the halcyon days even tho pay got A LOT better - but I feel like that period struck a really good balance. If all you know is the white-hot market of 2019-2021 I suppose everything else looks like a massive downgrade. (Not implying any of this relates to your experience, just giving my 2 cents)
  - jf22 2y ago
    People got used to getting 3-4 offers in a month with easy interviews. Taking 3-6 months to get a 6-figure job is the norm in many other professions.
- mattgreenrocks 2y ago
  It's ridiculous when you think about it. Some companies were throwing money at anyone who knew what a text editor was during Covid. And now they're happy to pretend like they only accept the very best, and use that as an excuse to low-ball/down-level. When it flips to an employee market, don't crow about retention difficulties.

This correlates with my recent experience trying the SWE job market (in the U.S.) Only offer I got was a lowball. Received a surprising number of rejections on technical interviews. 3-4 rounds is common. The bar today is set significantly higher than it was in past job searches. Most teams where I work are only hiring for staff and occasionally senior. Overall - not a candidates' market.

tossandthrow 2y ago
> Only offer I got was a lowball. Maybe expectations are unreasonable? I a high interest environment we will see more compression. Ie. Fewer multiples between the lowest paid people and the highest paid people (median for a role).
- jobseeker995 2y ago
  > Fewer multiples between the lowest paid people and the highest paid people This will of course cause their good devs to leave, but I guess these days companies are trying to innovate in AI rather than software dev. Once the AI bubble bursts I doubt we'll see a reset back to pure software dev being prestigious/highly paid. Thinking about a career change honestly.
  - tossandthrow 2y ago
    Leave to where? Salary for the highest paid people is a comparative good. If I pay you 10x you current salary I don't get 10x the innovation. Also, compression also means that the slowest paid people can get salary increases (to cover the increased mortgage costs) - it will be a mix. (not entirely knowing your own situation, not taking a "low ball" offer can leave you worse of, if the alternative is no income.)
  - mattgreenrocks 2y ago
    I think it's shifting towards being bimodal. See this for discussion: https://danluu.com/bimodal-compensation/ https://danluu.com/bimodal-compensation/ The transition is awkward as you'd expect, and jobs are stratifying.
    - coffeecloud 2y ago
      Shifting? IME comp has been FAANG/Not FAANG for the last 15 years with the two peaks in the distribution being pretty tight.
  - spamizbad 2y ago
    The pay is largely going to be set by demand. But also: The sector has been ramping up salaries since the mid aughts, and I've found different people have different ideas of what the inflection point was in technology where it become prestigious/highly paid. For me, I feel like things really heated up in the the 2010s. But there are others who I think would walk away from this industry if they got paid, adjusted for inflation, like it was 2015. As someone who cut their teeth in the wake of the dotcom crash, I look at the early 2010s as the halcyon days even tho pay got A LOT better - but I feel like that period struck a really good balance. If all you know is the white-hot market of 2019-2021 I suppose everything else looks like a massive downgrade. (Not implying any of this relates to your experience, just giving my 2 cents)
- jf22 2y ago
  People got used to getting 3-4 offers in a month with easy interviews. Taking 3-6 months to get a 6-figure job is the norm in many other professions.
mattgreenrocks 2y ago
It's ridiculous when you think about it. Some companies were throwing money at anyone who knew what a text editor was during Covid. And now they're happy to pretend like they only accept the very best, and use that as an excuse to low-ball/down-level. When it flips to an employee market, don't crow about retention difficulties.