3 ms·

Are you saying I'm wrong solely because I used hyperbole? Because it takes a fantastic level of pedantry to take my original comment literally. > learn somethi

Are you saying I'm wrong solely because I used hyperbole? Because it takes a fantastic level of pedantry to take my original comment literally. > learn something or keep quiet What I learned, by talking with multiple doctors, is that I shouldn't worry about getting the vaccine until I am in my sixties.

Retric 2y ago
> What I learned, by talking with multiple doctors, is that I shouldn't worry about getting the vaccine until I am in my sixties. Which is the root of your mistake. ~97% of Doctors get the flue vaccine, more than just about any other group. What’s relevant medical advice for you isn’t always generalizable. You may be the unusual exception.
- rglullis 2y ago
  Apples and Oranges? Doctors deal with sick people. Yes, perfectly rational to take one action while not blindly recommending it to the public at large. I don't know what you are trying to argue with this statistic, but it surely does not invalidate my original point.
  - Retric 2y ago
    > not blindly recommending it to the public at large What about a 1 on 1 consultation with a doctor makes you think the advice they give you is a blind recommendation? The general advice knowing nothing about you is to get the flue shot. A doctor looking at you can tell if your BMI is over 40, but a poster/website etc can’t. Thus the default is to recommend everyone get a flue shot while a Doctor may say you specifically have little need.
    - rglullis 2y ago
      > The general advice knowing nothing about you is to get the flue shot. A doctor looking at you can tell if your BMI is over 40... The general advice should be for people that are otherwise healthy, or be very specific about the risk factors being considered for the average case. Someone with a a BMI of 40 should be worrying over a whole lot of other things beyond the flu, and conversely it makes no sense to advise overall healthy people to be taking any type of drugs just because the risk is not that high. Granted, this calculus changes with infectious diseases with high fatality rates. This is why it's absolutely sensible to recommend everyone to be vaccinated for measles (1-2% IFR) and polio (5% IFR for kids, 20+% IFR for teenagers), but questionable to apply the same logic to something like influenza which is 100 to 1000 less fatal (0.01% IFR) and when fatality rate is highly concentrated (75%) on 65+ people.
      - Retric 2y ago
        > The general advice should be for people that are otherwise healthy Not from a public health standpoint unless healthy people would actually be harmed. 1/3 of adult Americans are obese. It varies by country, but add in various other health issues and risk factors like smoking or being around lots of other people at work and most people have some risk factors elevating their benefit from minimal to meaningful. So as everyone benefits at least a little and some people get a very significant benefit the general recommendation is for everyone over 6 to get a flue shot.
        rglullis 2y ago
        Obesity is not contagious. If obesity is a risk factor, then by all means include that in the list of people who the vaccine should be recommended. Mind you, the flu virus is highly mutable. Vaccinating healthy people does very little for "herd immunity" because most vaccines contain only year-old strains and at best it will not prevent infection but merely reduce the window of time where people are contagious.
        Retric 2y ago
        Health messaging works better the simpler the message. Start listing 4 dozen at risk groups and people stop reading the list. Even if you’re healthy simply spending less time sick is a meaningful benefit. Perhaps you only get the flu one year in 20, that’s still a world of suck you can largely avoid. And frankly it only gets better from there.
        rglullis 2y ago
        Your argument is resorting now to a very crude defense of white lies and Pascal Wagers. Not only this is borderline unethical to be used as support for any serious, national-level health policy, it is also bound to backfire and create even more suspicion from those who are not ideologically aligned with the Government du jour. In other words, if your health messaging is hiding crucial details because more information "is less effective" (at what? Informing or getting people to comply to a certain pre-defined plan?), then don't complain later when people share videos online about "what they don't want you to know".

Retric 2y ago

> What I learned, by talking with multiple doctors, is that I shouldn't worry about getting the vaccine until I am in my sixties. Which is the root of your mistake. ~97% of Doctors get the flue vaccine, more than just about any other group. What’s relevant medical advice for you isn’t always generalizable. You may be the unusual exception.

rglullis 2y ago
Apples and Oranges? Doctors deal with sick people. Yes, perfectly rational to take one action while not blindly recommending it to the public at large. I don't know what you are trying to argue with this statistic, but it surely does not invalidate my original point.
- Retric 2y ago
  > not blindly recommending it to the public at large What about a 1 on 1 consultation with a doctor makes you think the advice they give you is a blind recommendation? The general advice knowing nothing about you is to get the flue shot. A doctor looking at you can tell if your BMI is over 40, but a poster/website etc can’t. Thus the default is to recommend everyone get a flue shot while a Doctor may say you specifically have little need.
  - rglullis 2y ago
    > The general advice knowing nothing about you is to get the flue shot. A doctor looking at you can tell if your BMI is over 40... The general advice should be for people that are otherwise healthy, or be very specific about the risk factors being considered for the average case. Someone with a a BMI of 40 should be worrying over a whole lot of other things beyond the flu, and conversely it makes no sense to advise overall healthy people to be taking any type of drugs just because the risk is not that high. Granted, this calculus changes with infectious diseases with high fatality rates. This is why it's absolutely sensible to recommend everyone to be vaccinated for measles (1-2% IFR) and polio (5% IFR for kids, 20+% IFR for teenagers), but questionable to apply the same logic to something like influenza which is 100 to 1000 less fatal (0.01% IFR) and when fatality rate is highly concentrated (75%) on 65+ people.
    - Retric 2y ago
      > The general advice should be for people that are otherwise healthy Not from a public health standpoint unless healthy people would actually be harmed. 1/3 of adult Americans are obese. It varies by country, but add in various other health issues and risk factors like smoking or being around lots of other people at work and most people have some risk factors elevating their benefit from minimal to meaningful. So as everyone benefits at least a little and some people get a very significant benefit the general recommendation is for everyone over 6 to get a flue shot.
      - rglullis 2y ago
        Obesity is not contagious. If obesity is a risk factor, then by all means include that in the list of people who the vaccine should be recommended. Mind you, the flu virus is highly mutable. Vaccinating healthy people does very little for "herd immunity" because most vaccines contain only year-old strains and at best it will not prevent infection but merely reduce the window of time where people are contagious.
        Retric 2y ago
        Health messaging works better the simpler the message. Start listing 4 dozen at risk groups and people stop reading the list. Even if you’re healthy simply spending less time sick is a meaningful benefit. Perhaps you only get the flu one year in 20, that’s still a world of suck you can largely avoid. And frankly it only gets better from there.
        rglullis 2y ago
        Your argument is resorting now to a very crude defense of white lies and Pascal Wagers. Not only this is borderline unethical to be used as support for any serious, national-level health policy, it is also bound to backfire and create even more suspicion from those who are not ideologically aligned with the Government du jour. In other words, if your health messaging is hiding crucial details because more information "is less effective" (at what? Informing or getting people to comply to a certain pre-defined plan?), then don't complain later when people share videos online about "what they don't want you to know".