5 ms·

>> Yes, you're not allowed to do that under someone else's name, that's what the crime is. >But that's the objection. That's a stupid crime. The only reason an

>> Yes, you're not allowed to do that under someone else's name, that's what the crime is. >But that's the objection. That's a stupid crime. The only reason anybody wants to do that is that they can't open one under nobody's name, even though there are legitimate and innocent reasons to want to do that. It is far from true that the only reason people falsify identity in transactions is because KYC laws require identity. You should learn more about what criminals actually do.

AnthonyMouse 2y ago
Explain why someone would want to open a new empty bank account in someone else's name other than because they couldn't or don't want to open a new empty bank account in their own name. That's the crime we're talking about here. Not committing fraud so you can steal someone else's money, but only lying about your name because you don't want to give your name and the law prohibits you from not giving a name. The problem isn't even that it's illegal to open a bank account in someone else's name. The problem is that you're prohibited from anonymously opening a bank account.
- mcculley 2y ago
  > Explain why someone would want to open a new empty bank account in someone else's name other than because they couldn't or don't want to open a new empty bank account in their own name. Putting income into someone else’s tax bracket is the obvious use case. You lack imagination or experience with the real world.
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    That has nothing to do with this. To do that you would be long-term leaving the money in their account, requiring their cooperation because they would have the legal right to withdraw it. The same scheme works when you have the person whose name is on the account open it themselves. On top of that, that isn't even how withholding works. The tax isn't taken out by the bank, it's taken out by the employer, so to make your scheme work you'd have to be lying to the employer about who the employee is rather than the bank about whose account it is. And doing this kind of thing by any mechanism also doesn't need to be bank fraud because it's already tax fraud. Moreover, in practice how those schemes work doesn't require you to put some other person's name on the account, because they would put a corporate entity's name on the account, where the corporation is a legal entity type or is incorporated in a jurisdiction that has different tax treatment. It seems like you're just making up fake problems with giving people the ability to buy things digitally without having their privacy invaded. You need an example of something it would enable somebody to do that isn't already independently illegal. Otherwise you don't need this to be illegal because you can still prosecute them for that.
    - mcculley 2y ago
      Not all transactions are subject to withholding, especially the ones one might want to hide.
      - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
        But how does that help you? Whether or not your brokerage is required to withhold income tax, they're still going to file a 1099-DIV or what have you. Unless you're talking about overt crime like drug deals, and then we're back to that already being independently illegal.
        mcculley 2y ago
        Brokerage? You are making assumptions again. I am divesting of a business that has many kinds of transactions. Counterparties often suggest a cash discount so that one or both parties can hide the income.

AnthonyMouse 2y ago

Explain why someone would want to open a new empty bank account in someone else's name other than because they couldn't or don't want to open a new empty bank account in their own name. That's the crime we're talking about here. Not committing fraud so you can steal someone else's money, but only lying about your name because you don't want to give your name and the law prohibits you from not giving a name. The problem isn't even that it's illegal to open a bank account in someone else's name. The problem is that you're prohibited from anonymously opening a bank account.

mcculley 2y ago
> Explain why someone would want to open a new empty bank account in someone else's name other than because they couldn't or don't want to open a new empty bank account in their own name. Putting income into someone else’s tax bracket is the obvious use case. You lack imagination or experience with the real world.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  That has nothing to do with this. To do that you would be long-term leaving the money in their account, requiring their cooperation because they would have the legal right to withdraw it. The same scheme works when you have the person whose name is on the account open it themselves. On top of that, that isn't even how withholding works. The tax isn't taken out by the bank, it's taken out by the employer, so to make your scheme work you'd have to be lying to the employer about who the employee is rather than the bank about whose account it is. And doing this kind of thing by any mechanism also doesn't need to be bank fraud because it's already tax fraud. Moreover, in practice how those schemes work doesn't require you to put some other person's name on the account, because they would put a corporate entity's name on the account, where the corporation is a legal entity type or is incorporated in a jurisdiction that has different tax treatment. It seems like you're just making up fake problems with giving people the ability to buy things digitally without having their privacy invaded. You need an example of something it would enable somebody to do that isn't already independently illegal. Otherwise you don't need this to be illegal because you can still prosecute them for that.
  - mcculley 2y ago
    Not all transactions are subject to withholding, especially the ones one might want to hide.
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      But how does that help you? Whether or not your brokerage is required to withhold income tax, they're still going to file a 1099-DIV or what have you. Unless you're talking about overt crime like drug deals, and then we're back to that already being independently illegal.
      - mcculley 2y ago
        Brokerage? You are making assumptions again. I am divesting of a business that has many kinds of transactions. Counterparties often suggest a cash discount so that one or both parties can hide the income.