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There was no lost data, and it wasn't just unanswered emails -- several hours on the phone, juggling between subsidiaries on either side of the pond, with no cl

There was no lost data, and it wasn't just unanswered emails -- several hours on the phone, juggling between subsidiaries on either side of the pond, with no clear responsible party on their end. The customer service for this shipping provider is totally opaque and automated with AI crap throughout. We did eventually get in touch with some humans but they were not ultimately very helpful. We do have general business insurance and will probably file a claim, but we have two overworked and exhausted staff members, a lot of other priorities, and a budget which is already pretty deeply cut from all of these events, and we just don't have the time and energy to duke it out with an opaque megacorporation right now.

2pEXgD0fZ5cF 2y ago
I see, thanks for elaborating!
strogonoff 2y ago
If a shipping provider loses shipment and refuses to respect the insurance agreement, it sounds like they should be sued for damages. The damages are much more than the cost of the shipment, as the loss itself also undermines operations and causes a lot of financial downside.
- ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago
  Lawyers are not free, and the team already has very few CPU cycles to spare.
  - strogonoff 2y ago
    In some jurisdictions, the losing side will have to cover the cost. In some jurisdictions there are also small claims courts, which do not need legal representation. It’s clear that it caused financial distress whereas as happy paying customer I want SourceHut to continue existing.
    - arp242 2y ago
      The reality is that actually getting your rights is often an enormous hassle, in terms of time, money, and/or stress. If you're BigCorp™® with a Lawyer Department then that's not really a problem: you just send it off to the lawyers and continue with your day. If you're a private individual and/or small business: it very quickly becomes a trade-off. So imagine SourceHut sues. And they win. And losing shipping company has to pay all of sourcehut's fees. There is a very real non-zero chance they will just say "lol nope, fuck you". And then what? Basically nothing you can do about it. Even in domestic cases this is true, international cases even more so. In reality a lot of the world runs on goodwill and voluntary adherence to the rules, with not all that much little stopping bad actors from abusing things.
      - strogonoff 2y ago
        I part agree, but that goodwill and adherence also exist thanks to people who are willing to exercise their rights. A shipping company that suddenly can’t operate in a profitable country because they are in violation of court order will lose a lot of money; chances are, they like money.
        arp242 2y ago
        Yes, I agree; see e.g Alan Bates for a famous example. But I don't think anyone could be faulted for not being Alan Bates and just moving on with their life.
mfsch 2y ago
Does “no lost data” mean that all drives were wiped or simply that there were backups?
- drewdevault 2y ago
  Both. We restored from backups and touched up the diff out of band. We then had the drives removed and destroyed.

2pEXgD0fZ5cF 2y ago

I see, thanks for elaborating!

strogonoff 2y ago

If a shipping provider loses shipment and refuses to respect the insurance agreement, it sounds like they should be sued for damages. The damages are much more than the cost of the shipment, as the loss itself also undermines operations and causes a lot of financial downside.

ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago
Lawyers are not free, and the team already has very few CPU cycles to spare.
- strogonoff 2y ago
  In some jurisdictions, the losing side will have to cover the cost. In some jurisdictions there are also small claims courts, which do not need legal representation. It’s clear that it caused financial distress whereas as happy paying customer I want SourceHut to continue existing.
  - arp242 2y ago
    The reality is that actually getting your rights is often an enormous hassle, in terms of time, money, and/or stress. If you're BigCorp™® with a Lawyer Department then that's not really a problem: you just send it off to the lawyers and continue with your day. If you're a private individual and/or small business: it very quickly becomes a trade-off. So imagine SourceHut sues. And they win. And losing shipping company has to pay all of sourcehut's fees. There is a very real non-zero chance they will just say "lol nope, fuck you". And then what? Basically nothing you can do about it. Even in domestic cases this is true, international cases even more so. In reality a lot of the world runs on goodwill and voluntary adherence to the rules, with not all that much little stopping bad actors from abusing things.
    - strogonoff 2y ago
      I part agree, but that goodwill and adherence also exist thanks to people who are willing to exercise their rights. A shipping company that suddenly can’t operate in a profitable country because they are in violation of court order will lose a lot of money; chances are, they like money.
      - arp242 2y ago
        Yes, I agree; see e.g Alan Bates for a famous example. But I don't think anyone could be faulted for not being Alan Bates and just moving on with their life.

mfsch 2y ago

Does “no lost data” mean that all drives were wiped or simply that there were backups?

drewdevault 2y ago
Both. We restored from backups and touched up the diff out of band. We then had the drives removed and destroyed.