13 ms·

Microsoft blocks Windows 11 workaround that enabled local accounts

205 points by robtherobber 2y ago

raxxorraxor 2y ago
I just recently had to reinstall it a second time because my first image didn't let me past the account registration. It specifically stated that an internet connection is required and there was no way around it. On a notebook where neither ethernet nor wlan worked out of the box btw, I had to install them manually. That wouldn't have been possible with the old install. While I had an adapter to enable networking just fine, I opted to reinstall with a cleaned image. This is really bad work, Microsoft... maybe think about why your users are looking for workarounds here. And no, I do not want secure boot either, thank you very much.
- dgellow 2y ago
  As far as I’m aware you can still manually disable the internet connection and get a local install: https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-without-microsoft-account https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-witho... Yes it’s a real pain and it should be way simpler to do. Microsoft makes it pretty hard to like windows…
  - glimshe 2y ago
    That's how I installed Windows on one those mini PCs you can get from Amazon for $150. The trick, which required no fake account, came in the computer instructions. Additionally have in mind you can create a random account for free for each computer you buy. That's what I do for my TVs when using YouTube.
- dtx1 2y ago
  Whats the issue with Secure Boot? That's an actually good idea security wise.
  - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 2y ago
    No it isn't. It is allowing microsoft the only authority to allow you to run software of your choice on your own hardware.
  - raxxorraxor 2y ago
    Nah. While ensuring the integrity of your boot partition can be a security benefit, it isn't really the most attractive target for malware anymore. And instead most use cases are levelled against you. For example some computer games now require Windows 11 and secure boot to be enabled for remote attestation. If the mechanism becomes more pervasive, we will see more of that. That is very likely the main motivation of Microsoft here as well. And while there are enough methods for device identification and fingerprinting, I don't want my device to be cooperative here. I do not have evil maids either and the whole trusted computing stuff is badly designed, intransparent and mostly security fluff. I do understand the security benefit for enterprises and disk encryption, but I use alternatives for security. Also Microsoft defacto has control about allowed and allegedly secure distributions. Yes, you can add your own key, but that will probably be as viable as running your own CA at some point. Overall it just makes open computing more complicated and the security gain is negligible. edit: No idea why you were downvoted. Many believe trusted computing to "just" increase security. But the intentions and mechanisms behind that aren't as neutral as some would like you to believe. There are also other fights like AMD Pluton, which really lowers the desirability of AMD hardware for me. I though they could have been an alternative for Intel, which is fairly needed. But their developments aren't attractive if they invest in such technologies. I also forgot that a TPM has an endorsement key that is used as a hardware ID. It cannot be changed by the user. The whole setup is a scam and scams are a security threat. Secure boot and trusted computing should die, there are better ways to secure system integrity.
  - guappa 2y ago
    If you can tell me how to put your own public key in there, without spending hours on google; I will agree that it is a good idea security wise.
- vbezhenar 2y ago
  There’s a way around it. It’s specifically made by MS. You invoke cmd with special shortcut and execute bat-file bundled in installer which adds one key to registry and restarts an installer. I don’t know if it’s an officially supported way, but given the fact that MS put all the necessary scripts and implemented it, it can’t be a coincidence.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
cjk2 2y ago
More user hostility. Less user choice. I remember a few years ago on here everyone crowing about the new Microsoft and how it wasn't like the old one. It's notably worse a this point.
- simiones 2y ago
  Honestly I think both things are true: the consumer apps division of MS is more open and is being allowed to follow the money, even to other OSs. The Windows division is doubling down on all of the worse practices that the law allows them to try to extract some more value from their users. Thankfully the EU has forced them to curb some of these practices, even if the process is still intentioanlly obtuse. For example, you can't upgrade to an EU version of Windows if you didn't start with one - you have to reinstall Windows from scratch, without preserving any other user settings, and choose an EU country as your locale at this step. Only then do you get to uninstall Edge and no longer need to manually opt-out of all their tracking crap. I'm sure they've still kept a lot of illegal tracking around for now too, though I'm hopeful that in time they'll be forced to remove even that.
  - cjk2 2y ago
    I would rather hope the vendor has the right policy, not that a multi-national union forces it to have the right policy.
    - simiones 2y ago
      Unfortunately many people, in particular the leaders of industry in the USA, believe essentially the opposite: that any company almost has a duty to extract as much profit as legally possible, or even beyond, assuming profit > fines.
- cageface 2y ago
  I’m very uncomfortable with the degree to which I’ve become dependent on VSCode, GitHub, and Typescript. Microsoft has the same incentives to exploit their users now that they always have.
EnigmaFlare 2y ago
I'm so happy my brand new computer a few years ago was deemed not powerful enough for Windows 11 so I stayed on 10. Windows for home users is clearly in a death spiral.
- baal80spam 2y ago
  Unfortunately (as I really like(d) Windows OS), I agree with you. Once my LTSC is end of life, I'm finally swapping to anything but Windows.
  - haunter 2y ago
    Windows 11 LTSC just came out last week and no online account needed
worewood 2y ago
I recently had to install windows on 2 computers after some years without doing it. Had to spend an entire day debloating the thing. Had to use a handful of tools and powershell scripts to do it. I still can't imagine how they managed to make a context menu open in almost a full second. In Windows 9x on a 200Mhz it was instant. A useless one too, because all the options that matter are in the old one. The only thing holding me from Linux is ThrottleStop and MSI Afterburner, which are a must for gaming on my laptop
- ta1243 2y ago
  > The only thing holding me from Linux I've spent the last 25 years using linux and seeing this statement. There's always something.
  - darkwater 2y ago
    And to give a more Linux-positive spin "there is always something that holds you... which is actually not that vital in the end once you lose it"
    - bishbosh 2y ago
      It really has come a long way. Obviously this is one users needs, and other folks will find other things that are missing or not 100%. But the fact that in this case the conversation as moved from gaming more generally, to vendor specific overclocking is quite a sign of the times.
  - eptcyka 2y ago
    It might be different people saying that, and with time, some blockers are removed, some people migrate, and a new set of would be linux users get bumped up in the queue where they are now at their last obstacle to using linux.
    - account42 2y ago
      A lot of these "blockers" are, to put it bluntly, merely excuses. Like ggp here didn't mention why he thinks ThrottleStop and MSI Afterburner are a must for him but but I doubt that they are truly irreplacable. More likely they provide some non-essential utility which would make this more about tradeoffs, or about just taking the plunge to feel the grass on the other side of the fence with your own feet.
hans_castorp 2y ago
It really seems Microsoft is trying hard to push users to Linux (or other alternatives)
- proneb1rd 2y ago
  It's amazing how they keep digging their own grave.
  - orphea 2y ago
    Don't forget that we all are in an echo chamber. Most people are not pushed anywhere, they don't care. They don't even know that Microsoft is hostile.
    - devsda 2y ago
      Yeah. Only MS knows the actual impact of their decisions. The fact that they are removing a workaround says that it doesn't impact them much i.e. their actual users don't care. Despite all these shenanigans, their regular users will be oblivious to the harm and power users will still grudgingly use it.
      - hans_castorp 2y ago
        I guess(!), MS makes most of their profit from Windows licenses with enterprise licenses, where all users are managed through ActiveDirectory. If that assumption is correct, then I guess the financial losses of private users not migrating to Windows 11 might be negligible.
        Ekaros 2y ago
        How many actual retail licenses they sell? Either retail or individual OEM. As with pre-builds for consumer market license is already there. And lot of home builders just go for grey market which have fraction of retail price. Even Home is not exactly cheapest product if bought retail from regular reseller.
fragmede 2y ago
It's worth noting ChromeOS doesn't let you do that either, while MacOS doesn't require an iCloud account. iOS doesn't either, but is pushy about having an iCloud account. Don't know about Android.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 2y ago
  I have a Samsung phone and while I'm allowed not to have a Samsung account, it's pretty pushy(pun intended) about it. There's an eternal notification active that tells me to add one. If I dismiss it, it reappears, either instantly or within a couple minutes. It can be snoozed, but the option to mute it indefinitely is greyed out in the notification manager. The app responsible can't be disabled or uninstalled. I can kill it, but then it's promptly restarted. Currently it has used 2% of the battery since the last charge. I don't even know what a Samsung account is for, but I don't care. Clearly I don't need one because the phone is fine otherwise.
  - coffeeling 2y ago
    They have their own ecosystem of apps and services a la MS, Goog, Apple.
- whywhywhywhy 2y ago
  Macs are way worse about pushing services on you than they used to it, back in the glory days it was maybe one CTA in the OOBE. Now once every 2 months or so I open Apple Music and get blocked from my local music until I dismiss an Apple Music subscription offer. In general you can tell there is no one at the top in a position to veto this who has the taste to know they should and it's slowly eroding the brand just to hope they get a few more Apple One, Apple Play, Apple News, Apple Fitness+ whatever subs
mrweasel 2y ago
Other than being able to gobble up user data and being able to associate it with a person (or at least an email address) and later sell that information, what is Microsoft reasoning for refusing local accounts? This whole obsession with forcing users to create a Microsoft account is really weird. It may provides some features for certain types of users, but I really don't see any reason for forcing a Microsoft account. Apple also REALLY want you to have an Apple ID, but you don't have to. I still fail to see why Microsoft doesn't go all in on privacy, do they really need the extra profit from advertising? Microsoft doesn't give a shit about the desktop anymore and at this point they're also stopping to care about the business customers, unless they can move them to subscription based services in the cloud.
- andyferris 2y ago
  The reasoning is Microsoft is now in the services (as well as advertising) business, with traditionally-licensed desktop software revenue becoming less and less important. Which you kinda stated in the last sentence. The reasoning for not going all in on privacy is because they want to maximise services and advertising revenue, and they also sell to government and enterprise who actually like the ability to spy on their employees. There's not much financial incentive or government regulation to make them focus on consumer/end-user privacy.
- squarefoot 2y ago
  > but I really don't see any reason for forcing a Microsoft account. Microsoft has ties with many governments. I wouldn't be much surprised if the reason they amass user data had nothing to do with selling that data to companies.
  - coffeeling 2y ago
    The big players would be fools to sell data, as such. Their whole thing is that they are so big they can target ads effectively. You'd be a fool to sell that data. They sell ad targeting and ad placement, not the data to do those things.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
bee_rider 2y ago
I have a theory, which I have no way of backing up or testing at all, that the entire slump in the laptop segment is driven by the fact that Windows is just utterly user-hostile garbage, and there aren’t any alternatives really, other than MacOS, which is too tied to Apple. Like any reasonable tech savvy person I use Linux of course, but I’d have trouble suggesting it… lots of people just don’t want to use the terminal at all.
- thefz 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - xcv123 2y ago
    https://brew.sh https://brew.sh https://asahilinux.org https://asahilinux.org
    - thefz 2y ago
      Bare bone functionality and half of the hardware not working. No thanks, keep your apple computers, they are going to be in a landfill soon anyway.
      - xcv123 2y ago
        Most of the hardware is supported now. My old HP laptop disintegrated within a few years and became landfill, but my 9 year old Mac is indestructible and runs anything I want. Linux, Windows, macOS. Also repaired it myself (new battery, new left speaker). The latest Macs are built like tanks and will easily last 10+ years.
  - fattegourmet 2y ago
    Your reply seems entirely focused on Apple, when the article is about Windows 11. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
    - 2y ago
kawsper 2y ago
We've been moving our fleet to OSX, I am so tired of dealing with Windows and Microsoft in particular.
- hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
  Just don't do large numbers of Apple "servers". Xserves were horrible and Mac Pro/Mini/Studios aren't really servers, they're still desktops. They're great as stand-alone desktops. For large numbers of Apple devices, MDM is essential.
kreyenborgi 2y ago
So what would be a good laptop for Linux these days?
- quantumspandex 2y ago
  You may look into Framework laptops.
- anthropodie 2y ago
  Checkout framework laptop
- jonesjohnson 2y ago
  A used Thinkpad. (or any other used non-consumer grade laptop) Most companies either rent their laptops or somehow sell them after a couple of years. They are usually in good condition and often the reseller gives you 1-2 years of warranty. I've bought a used X250 for <300€ a couple of years ago and I could not be much happier. Of course, the specs could be a bit better, but for most of my tasks (HW + embedded Linux dev) it's sufficient. For everything else i can spin up some beefy server somewhere in a couple of minutes. And since the hardware is on the market for quite some time, driver issues are mostly resolved. Bonus: used Docking stations and spare power supplies are cheap and the battery can be hot-swapped. Bonus2: since it's already slightly beaten down, making another scratch doesn't hurt as much as if it would've been a shiny new macbook. edit: I think the official term is "refurbished". I can't see myself ever buying a new device again.
- trelane 2y ago
  System76 is by far the best that I have found. No litany of kludges to make your Windows laptop mostly functional (e.g. no need to have kernel parameters to work around buggy hardware) No need to look compatibility tables and install guides. It ships with Linux preinstalled and with great support. So if you want Linux that Just Works, this is my recommendation. (Also if you want to DIY it with e.g. Arch, since the hardware supports Linux already.)
- christophilus 2y ago
  I’ve had good experiences with business-grade Dell laptops like the Latitude line. Framework and Thinkpads are generally solid, too. As for distro, Fedora is a great beginner distro.
short_sells_poo 2y ago
Ultimately, the only reason we need to look at is late stage capitalism (and I say this as someone who believes in the market economy). Windows was the historic money maker at Microsoft, they held all the keys, all the power. The regime is changing however. OSes are more and more commoditised and the money has moved to Cloud and now AI. But there is one rule of the market: you have to post gains every quarter. So what is the Windows team to do? There is no growth to be had anywhere else, so they become increasingly less scrupulous in an effort to squeeze more $$$ out of the product. This is obviously a race to the bottom. They know, we know it, the market knows it. However, as long as the numbers keep going up, the market will reward this self destructive behaviour and the team will indulge it. They aren't stupid, they know that these features are annoying, but they'll keep pushing them to find the optimal point between the users being pissed off and profit going up. The risk is of course that they launch a positive feedback loop of exodus and end up destroying the product in the long term, but in the long term we are all dead and the PMs profiting from these user hostile policies will be long retired...
- the4anoni 2y ago
  I just miss Windows 7 :(
- irusensei 2y ago
  I also suspect one of the driving reasons is to inflate reports. Sony is doing a similar thing by requiring PSN accounts on PC games - its to show their share holders that MAU number go up.
  - short_sells_poo 2y ago
    Absolutely. It's just maximizing some sort of metric that ultimately translates into P&L for the PMs. Everything else is largely irrelevant. If the users bitch and moan, but the PM is getting paid more, they'll be incentivised to keep doing what they are doing. The product may end up dead in 10 years time as the userbase is driven away, but by then everyone responsible is long gone. We can all pontificate about acting differently in their shoes, but I'm honest enough to admit that I wouldn't :D
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Moldoteck 2y ago
I've recently bought a windows laptop for my grandparents and it had W11... It looked bloated af... Had to change some bios settings to install some older version of windows 10 so that the system would look similar to what they know, but I'm thinking next time I'll just install Ubuntu + maybe some skin + rustdesk to help them if needed and deal with it
HeckFeck 2y ago
Sometimes I read the latest news from my adoptive industry and truly ponder the probability that we have been reincarnated in another world's hell.
vezycash 2y ago
They are trying so hard to de-evolve Windows into iOS and android.
haspok 2y ago
This is how Microsoft is fighting piracy: "So you want to use our software and not pay for it, huh? Fine, but in return we need your personal data and behaviour, and we will show you unwanted ads in the Start menu and other places. Deal?"
- Filligree 2y ago
  No deal. I paid quite a lot for my windows license.
  - hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
    And you don't really get an ad-free experience without both finagling a more expensive Enterprise license AND magic GPO/registry incantations to cut the crap. Conclusion: Microsoft is an airline without planes out to monetize misery.
aforty 2y ago
So that means they fixed SMB folder shares with Microsoft accounts, right?
xg15 2y ago
> It seems that Microsoft is aiming to make the use of Windows 11 dependent on a Microsoft account. In combination with the increased calls for Windows users to finally switch to Windows 11, this appears to be a controversial combination. I want to see if they really manage to force several millions of users out of the blue to make a MS account, against the explicit will of those users.
mythz 2y ago
Now that I've started getting Windows 10 EOL Notifications (on aging 2017 hardware), I'll be needing to upgrade to a new Desktop + OS soon. No idea what my next Desktop OS is going to be but definitely don't want ads/spyware in a progressively user hostile OS so it will be the first time where I wont be using Windows as my primary OS. I've been using macOS on my macbooks and deploy exclusively to Linux servers so either OS will be a viable alternative. It will come down to whether Apple can ship compelling M4 H/W at this years WWDC, if they don't I'll be switching to a Linux Desktop OS where it will finally be the year of the Linux Desktop!
- guappa 2y ago
  I've been getting harassment to update to 11 (on a machine where secure boot is disabled) for a very long time. Plus harassment to stop using a local account, of course.
  - BenjiWiebe 2y ago
    IIRC, there is a pretty simple registry edit that can force Windows to remain on the Windows 20 22H2 update channel, i.e. not prompting to install windows 11.
shoozza 2y ago
I wonder how much work it is to check if Windows was installed with an account and terminate the program in that case.
jasonvorhe 2y ago
Okay then, I'll just switch my gaming rig to Ubuntu and fiddle with Wine or whatever to get my Quake Champions running. Might take a small performance hit but I'm not going to use Windows with a Microsoft account. Not ever. Not going to happen.
- the4anoni 2y ago
  Up to 10% performance hit isn't small. Controversial opinion, but linux isn't good for gaming even in 2024. People who are making such things possible are doing great piece of work, but I would say it's more about gaming industry isn't ready for this. Developers still don't case about linux, performance hit is too big, anti-cheat systems have issues and Linux desktop is too fragmented. OOBE\BYPASSNRO still works at least
  - Kim_Bruning 2y ago
    I think it depends what games you play. Steam actually allows you to return a game if it doesn't run on your system (in fact they have a very generous return policy indeed). GOG is a bit more strict, and a bit more hit-and-miss, but also Mostly Works (tm). The unifying factor is steam and/or heroic games launcher (and one or two others besides), which set up your system to run a particular game. Most of the games I've bought in the past year or so Just Work (tm). Obviously YMMV. When it comes to GOG, hilariously, sometimes installing the windows version _on linux_ is the easier option, what with wine/proton forming the universal compatibility layer. I'm sort of wondering if we might evolve to a point where there's proton-for-windows, and then everyone can just target proton exclusively.
whywhywhywhy 2y ago
I'm definitely not one of those people who thinks Windows should stay frozen forever as Windows XP, I appreciate we're finally getting 15-20 year old features like search filtering in the task manager. But whoever's bonus metric is tricking people to sign in with MS accounts is really making it a gross experience. I managed to finally get my new machines install on a local account using "OOBE\BYPASSNRO" although none of the instructions I found online worked for some reason, eventually found the script find myself. Then when trying to eventually register Windows it tricked me into converting to a MS account because the license troubleshooter forces you to login to do anything. Next time I boot my machine its asking for my MS password instead of my local password... So that's taught me to never enter my MS account into anything on the desktop because there is a risk it will silently do that. You have a "Home" and a "Pro" version, really just wish for a world where they do this silly scammy behavior in the Home version and let the Pro version just be an actual tool to use hardware. I'm not using Windows because it's a great operating system I'm only using it because it's the only OS in the Venn diagram of "Supports Nvidia GPUs" and "Runs Adobe CC", can't they just be happy I use it at all.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  >and let the Pro version just be an actual tool to use hardware. Pro has Group Policy, among which is an option to block Microsoft account logins at the OS level. It kind of breaks Microsoft 365 subscriptions if you need Office 365, but that's obvious. Other Group Policies include ones to turn off Windows Autoupdates, block OneDrive, block Copilot, and more.
  - Y-bar 2y ago
    Any good resources on flipping these switches?
    - Dalewyn 2y ago
      Yes: Open Group Policy Editor and play around. There are so many policies you can configure to your heart's content that it's better to learn by doing than hearing.
benterix 2y ago
They go exactly according to the plan. Now you officially don't own your own personal computer.
- account42 2y ago
  I look forward to see people getting banned from their own computers.
the4anoni 2y ago
They just fixed bug I guess... Unless "OOBE\BYPASSNRO" still works I don't have any problem with that
zb3 2y ago
Very good move, seems like Microsoft really embraces Linux nowadays :)
quantumspandex 2y ago
As consumer-hostile as Microsoft's practices are, and that these things needs to be optional, I find linking your Windows to a Microsoft's account still pretty useful. With it you can sync your Windows settings across different devices. You can use Find My Device. You can save your BitLocker's encryption key to the cloud. It helps when you forgot your login password. Copilot AI stuffs,... Turning off telemetry and deinstalling some bloatware requires clicking through a few menus, but it's still a mostly just-work experience compared to the amount of time I need to set up a Linux box. On Linux, configuring the fingerprint to work everywhere requires reading through different online threads and edit a config file. Enabling TPM auto disk decryption involves 10 steps command line. Enabling proprietary video codecs necessitates adding a third party repository. And many other small issues that I have to troubleshoot (shutdown freezing, sddm crashing after wake-up from sleep, PackageKit unable to update package, having to turn on a kernel flag for touchpad to work...). I really want Linux to work for me but still have to decide to use Windows on my personal laptop, coming from someone who has to work with Linux everyday at work.
poikroequ 2y ago
It really is disgusting that they'll block workarounds like this. Do they REALLY need to force this on the less than 1% of users who might use such workarounds? You can use a program called Rufus to create a bootable flash drive from a Windows ISO which lets you bypass the Microsoft login.
haunter 2y ago
Windows 11 LTSC just came out last week and no online account needed (also no crapware, no TPM, no Secure Boot etc.)
- alkonaut 2y ago
  I assume a new machine with an OEM Windows license doesn't have the possibility to switch it to LTSC?
  - haunter 2y ago
    Not but MS doesn't care about home user piracy either.
- Kim_Bruning 2y ago
  I'd buy it, but it seems you can only get a volume license or so? How tricky is that to get?
  - haunter 2y ago
    If you are a home end user just pirate it, iso is available everywhere and you can activate it with MAS https://archive.org/details/Windows11LTSC https://archive.org/details/Windows11LTSC
- raydev 2y ago
  Any downsides? In particular, will games work? Visual Studio?
  - haunter 2y ago
    There really isn’t any downsides. No feature updates? So if something fancy comes out LTSC doesn't get that just much later (and even then almost everything is removed). The only thing I can imagine if there is some bleeding edge hardware feature that needs the newest Windows version because of drivers, API etc. and that won't work. Windows 10 LTSC only got four feature updates, most of the time years apart so most likely that will be the case with 11 LTSC too https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/ltsc/overview https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/ltsc/ove...
xjay 2y ago
Windows should be broken up. "Windows 11 Platform" for applications, drivers, security updates, and gaming. No (forced) Microsoft account. Only security updates. "Windows 11 Plus" is a subscription model for enhanced features. What their system requirements tell consumers: > Windows 11 Pro for personal use and Windows 11 Home require internet connectivity and a Microsoft account during initial device setup. [1] [1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifica...
flacebo 2y ago
Little bit off topic, sorry. Windows 10 support ending in 2025 is really scary. Literally billions of computers are not eligible to install Windows 11 because of artificial limitations, all of these are supposed to be trashed? That would be an enormous amount of e-waste. Realistically one or a combination of the following will happen: - Microsoft extends the deadline - There will be a paid long term support update channel, and hopefully a registry edit will enable this (happened a couple of times before) - Most people will continue to use it without security updates (most likely) I guess Microsoft will agressively tell you that your OS is not safe, etc, so hopefully a single tool will exist that hides all of these messages and switches to the long term support updates.
- guappa 2y ago
  Well… KDE is green! https://eco.kde.org/ https://eco.kde.org/
- nunez 2y ago
  We've been here before with Windows XP. It'll be fine.
- devsda 2y ago
  May be and just may be, those users will then try some linux distros and realize that it's not so bad and stick with it. Hope that will drive linux adoption a little more.
  - sexy_seedbox 2y ago
    2025 will surely be the year of desktop Linux.
npteljes 2y ago
Well, I'll personally weather this storm on my Windows 10 LTSC 21H2. I'm sure people will figure out something until 2027-01-12, when its security supports end, or Microsoft will release the Win 11 LTSC-equivalent.
- ptx 2y ago
  How do you get a license for the LTSC?
  - npteljes 2y ago
    I fake one with vlmcsd.
ofrzeta 2y ago
Somehow I managed getting through the setup of a 2nd hand laptop that came with Win 11 preinstalled. At one point they wanted me to enter a Microsoft account but through back and forth I somehow was able to skip it although I couldn't reproduce it. Probably I accidentally did the same as described in the article. Anyway, requiring a Microsoft account sucks and I wonder if it's even legal in the EU (better to ask for forgiveness than permission, I guess, right MS?). Conclusion is, Microsoft sucks as much as ever, even with all the open source and Microsoft loves Linux.
utensil4778 2y ago
My husband is a normal layperson who treats his computer like an appliance. It's just there to do word processing and web browsing. He's been asking me to buy him a new laptop and specifically wants Windows on it. I've been struggling for weeks trying to explain to him why Windows is bad and why I don't want to setup and manage his spyware machine. I've convinced him to at least try a few Linux distros to see what he's comfortable with, but he either doesn't understand why Windows is bad or just doesn't care. For now I'm avoiding purchasing the new machine, and he's begrudgingly using my manjaro laptop. I really don't know what to do about it. The most solid argument I've got so far is that I can't help him with any of the inevitable windows 11 issues because I just don't use windows anymore.
- Mountain_Skies 2y ago
  He's his own person. You want to help him avoid future headaches and protect his privacy but ultimately, he is his own person who should be able to make his own choices. Understandably this is difficult for you since you are being asked to buy the new laptop and have valid reasons for not wanting to purchase one with Windows but none of that changes the fact that he is his own person with his own thoughts. You may feel complicit in any trouble his choice brings him since you're involved in the purchasing process but that's on him, not you, if it ends poorly.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    I set up a separate VLAN on my home network to isolate all Windows machines from the rest of the LAN and strictly lock down their access to the outside world, too. Maybe that is an option for OP's home network? Windows machines can safely coexist on your network, but you need to treat them as attackers in your threat model.
- CoastalCoder 2y ago
  That's a tough situation. Marriage is one of those relationships where hard-line stances (on either side) can be really damaging.
  - 2y ago
sigio 2y ago
Still condider windows 2000 to be 'peak windows usability' ... and usable with tiny amounts of ram ;)
rldjbpin 2y ago
i have also noticed dark patterns with making you login if you have a local account. really annoying and at least there should be some respite for pro users.

205 points by robtherobber 2y ago

I just recently had to reinstall it a second time because my first image didn't let me past the account registration. It specifically stated that an internet connection is required and there was no way around it. On a notebook where neither ethernet nor wlan worked out of the box btw, I had to install them manually. That wouldn't have been possible with the old install. While I had an adapter to enable networking just fine, I opted to reinstall with a cleaned image. This is really bad work, Microsoft... maybe think about why your users are looking for workarounds here. And no, I do not want secure boot either, thank you very much.

dgellow 2y ago
As far as I’m aware you can still manually disable the internet connection and get a local install: https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-without-microsoft-account https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-witho... Yes it’s a real pain and it should be way simpler to do. Microsoft makes it pretty hard to like windows…
- glimshe 2y ago
  That's how I installed Windows on one those mini PCs you can get from Amazon for $150. The trick, which required no fake account, came in the computer instructions. Additionally have in mind you can create a random account for free for each computer you buy. That's what I do for my TVs when using YouTube.
dtx1 2y ago
Whats the issue with Secure Boot? That's an actually good idea security wise.
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 2y ago
  No it isn't. It is allowing microsoft the only authority to allow you to run software of your choice on your own hardware.
- raxxorraxor 2y ago
  Nah. While ensuring the integrity of your boot partition can be a security benefit, it isn't really the most attractive target for malware anymore. And instead most use cases are levelled against you. For example some computer games now require Windows 11 and secure boot to be enabled for remote attestation. If the mechanism becomes more pervasive, we will see more of that. That is very likely the main motivation of Microsoft here as well. And while there are enough methods for device identification and fingerprinting, I don't want my device to be cooperative here. I do not have evil maids either and the whole trusted computing stuff is badly designed, intransparent and mostly security fluff. I do understand the security benefit for enterprises and disk encryption, but I use alternatives for security. Also Microsoft defacto has control about allowed and allegedly secure distributions. Yes, you can add your own key, but that will probably be as viable as running your own CA at some point. Overall it just makes open computing more complicated and the security gain is negligible. edit: No idea why you were downvoted. Many believe trusted computing to "just" increase security. But the intentions and mechanisms behind that aren't as neutral as some would like you to believe. There are also other fights like AMD Pluton, which really lowers the desirability of AMD hardware for me. I though they could have been an alternative for Intel, which is fairly needed. But their developments aren't attractive if they invest in such technologies. I also forgot that a TPM has an endorsement key that is used as a hardware ID. It cannot be changed by the user. The whole setup is a scam and scams are a security threat. Secure boot and trusted computing should die, there are better ways to secure system integrity.
- guappa 2y ago
  If you can tell me how to put your own public key in there, without spending hours on google; I will agree that it is a good idea security wise.
vbezhenar 2y ago
There’s a way around it. It’s specifically made by MS. You invoke cmd with special shortcut and execute bat-file bundled in installer which adds one key to registry and restarts an installer. I don’t know if it’s an officially supported way, but given the fact that MS put all the necessary scripts and implemented it, it can’t be a coincidence.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

cjk2 2y ago

More user hostility. Less user choice. I remember a few years ago on here everyone crowing about the new Microsoft and how it wasn't like the old one. It's notably worse a this point.

simiones 2y ago
Honestly I think both things are true: the consumer apps division of MS is more open and is being allowed to follow the money, even to other OSs. The Windows division is doubling down on all of the worse practices that the law allows them to try to extract some more value from their users. Thankfully the EU has forced them to curb some of these practices, even if the process is still intentioanlly obtuse. For example, you can't upgrade to an EU version of Windows if you didn't start with one - you have to reinstall Windows from scratch, without preserving any other user settings, and choose an EU country as your locale at this step. Only then do you get to uninstall Edge and no longer need to manually opt-out of all their tracking crap. I'm sure they've still kept a lot of illegal tracking around for now too, though I'm hopeful that in time they'll be forced to remove even that.
- cjk2 2y ago
  I would rather hope the vendor has the right policy, not that a multi-national union forces it to have the right policy.
  - simiones 2y ago
    Unfortunately many people, in particular the leaders of industry in the USA, believe essentially the opposite: that any company almost has a duty to extract as much profit as legally possible, or even beyond, assuming profit > fines.
cageface 2y ago
I’m very uncomfortable with the degree to which I’ve become dependent on VSCode, GitHub, and Typescript. Microsoft has the same incentives to exploit their users now that they always have.

EnigmaFlare 2y ago

I'm so happy my brand new computer a few years ago was deemed not powerful enough for Windows 11 so I stayed on 10. Windows for home users is clearly in a death spiral.

baal80spam 2y ago
Unfortunately (as I really like(d) Windows OS), I agree with you. Once my LTSC is end of life, I'm finally swapping to anything but Windows.
- haunter 2y ago
  Windows 11 LTSC just came out last week and no online account needed

worewood 2y ago

I recently had to install windows on 2 computers after some years without doing it. Had to spend an entire day debloating the thing. Had to use a handful of tools and powershell scripts to do it. I still can't imagine how they managed to make a context menu open in almost a full second. In Windows 9x on a 200Mhz it was instant. A useless one too, because all the options that matter are in the old one. The only thing holding me from Linux is ThrottleStop and MSI Afterburner, which are a must for gaming on my laptop

ta1243 2y ago
> The only thing holding me from Linux I've spent the last 25 years using linux and seeing this statement. There's always something.
- darkwater 2y ago
  And to give a more Linux-positive spin "there is always something that holds you... which is actually not that vital in the end once you lose it"
  - bishbosh 2y ago
    It really has come a long way. Obviously this is one users needs, and other folks will find other things that are missing or not 100%. But the fact that in this case the conversation as moved from gaming more generally, to vendor specific overclocking is quite a sign of the times.
- eptcyka 2y ago
  It might be different people saying that, and with time, some blockers are removed, some people migrate, and a new set of would be linux users get bumped up in the queue where they are now at their last obstacle to using linux.
  - account42 2y ago
    A lot of these "blockers" are, to put it bluntly, merely excuses. Like ggp here didn't mention why he thinks ThrottleStop and MSI Afterburner are a must for him but but I doubt that they are truly irreplacable. More likely they provide some non-essential utility which would make this more about tradeoffs, or about just taking the plunge to feel the grass on the other side of the fence with your own feet.

hans_castorp 2y ago

It really seems Microsoft is trying hard to push users to Linux (or other alternatives)

proneb1rd 2y ago
It's amazing how they keep digging their own grave.
- orphea 2y ago
  Don't forget that we all are in an echo chamber. Most people are not pushed anywhere, they don't care. They don't even know that Microsoft is hostile.
  - devsda 2y ago
    Yeah. Only MS knows the actual impact of their decisions. The fact that they are removing a workaround says that it doesn't impact them much i.e. their actual users don't care. Despite all these shenanigans, their regular users will be oblivious to the harm and power users will still grudgingly use it.
    - hans_castorp 2y ago
      I guess(!), MS makes most of their profit from Windows licenses with enterprise licenses, where all users are managed through ActiveDirectory. If that assumption is correct, then I guess the financial losses of private users not migrating to Windows 11 might be negligible.
      - Ekaros 2y ago
        How many actual retail licenses they sell? Either retail or individual OEM. As with pre-builds for consumer market license is already there. And lot of home builders just go for grey market which have fraction of retail price. Even Home is not exactly cheapest product if bought retail from regular reseller.

fragmede 2y ago

It's worth noting ChromeOS doesn't let you do that either, while MacOS doesn't require an iCloud account. iOS doesn't either, but is pushy about having an iCloud account. Don't know about Android.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 2y ago
I have a Samsung phone and while I'm allowed not to have a Samsung account, it's pretty pushy(pun intended) about it. There's an eternal notification active that tells me to add one. If I dismiss it, it reappears, either instantly or within a couple minutes. It can be snoozed, but the option to mute it indefinitely is greyed out in the notification manager. The app responsible can't be disabled or uninstalled. I can kill it, but then it's promptly restarted. Currently it has used 2% of the battery since the last charge. I don't even know what a Samsung account is for, but I don't care. Clearly I don't need one because the phone is fine otherwise.
- coffeeling 2y ago
  They have their own ecosystem of apps and services a la MS, Goog, Apple.
whywhywhywhy 2y ago
Macs are way worse about pushing services on you than they used to it, back in the glory days it was maybe one CTA in the OOBE. Now once every 2 months or so I open Apple Music and get blocked from my local music until I dismiss an Apple Music subscription offer. In general you can tell there is no one at the top in a position to veto this who has the taste to know they should and it's slowly eroding the brand just to hope they get a few more Apple One, Apple Play, Apple News, Apple Fitness+ whatever subs

mrweasel 2y ago

Other than being able to gobble up user data and being able to associate it with a person (or at least an email address) and later sell that information, what is Microsoft reasoning for refusing local accounts? This whole obsession with forcing users to create a Microsoft account is really weird. It may provides some features for certain types of users, but I really don't see any reason for forcing a Microsoft account. Apple also REALLY want you to have an Apple ID, but you don't have to. I still fail to see why Microsoft doesn't go all in on privacy, do they really need the extra profit from advertising? Microsoft doesn't give a shit about the desktop anymore and at this point they're also stopping to care about the business customers, unless they can move them to subscription based services in the cloud.

andyferris 2y ago
The reasoning is Microsoft is now in the services (as well as advertising) business, with traditionally-licensed desktop software revenue becoming less and less important. Which you kinda stated in the last sentence. The reasoning for not going all in on privacy is because they want to maximise services and advertising revenue, and they also sell to government and enterprise who actually like the ability to spy on their employees. There's not much financial incentive or government regulation to make them focus on consumer/end-user privacy.
squarefoot 2y ago
> but I really don't see any reason for forcing a Microsoft account. Microsoft has ties with many governments. I wouldn't be much surprised if the reason they amass user data had nothing to do with selling that data to companies.
- coffeeling 2y ago
  The big players would be fools to sell data, as such. Their whole thing is that they are so big they can target ads effectively. You'd be a fool to sell that data. They sell ad targeting and ad placement, not the data to do those things.
Dalewyn 2y ago

bee_rider 2y ago

I have a theory, which I have no way of backing up or testing at all, that the entire slump in the laptop segment is driven by the fact that Windows is just utterly user-hostile garbage, and there aren’t any alternatives really, other than MacOS, which is too tied to Apple. Like any reasonable tech savvy person I use Linux of course, but I’d have trouble suggesting it… lots of people just don’t want to use the terminal at all.

thefz 2y ago
[flagged]
- xcv123 2y ago
  https://brew.sh https://brew.sh https://asahilinux.org https://asahilinux.org
  - thefz 2y ago
    Bare bone functionality and half of the hardware not working. No thanks, keep your apple computers, they are going to be in a landfill soon anyway.
    - xcv123 2y ago
      Most of the hardware is supported now. My old HP laptop disintegrated within a few years and became landfill, but my 9 year old Mac is indestructible and runs anything I want. Linux, Windows, macOS. Also repaired it myself (new battery, new left speaker). The latest Macs are built like tanks and will easily last 10+ years.
- fattegourmet 2y ago
  Your reply seems entirely focused on Apple, when the article is about Windows 11. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
  - 2y ago

kawsper 2y ago

We've been moving our fleet to OSX, I am so tired of dealing with Windows and Microsoft in particular.

hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
Just don't do large numbers of Apple "servers". Xserves were horrible and Mac Pro/Mini/Studios aren't really servers, they're still desktops. They're great as stand-alone desktops. For large numbers of Apple devices, MDM is essential.

kreyenborgi 2y ago

So what would be a good laptop for Linux these days?

quantumspandex 2y ago
You may look into Framework laptops.
anthropodie 2y ago
Checkout framework laptop
jonesjohnson 2y ago
A used Thinkpad. (or any other used non-consumer grade laptop) Most companies either rent their laptops or somehow sell them after a couple of years. They are usually in good condition and often the reseller gives you 1-2 years of warranty. I've bought a used X250 for <300€ a couple of years ago and I could not be much happier. Of course, the specs could be a bit better, but for most of my tasks (HW + embedded Linux dev) it's sufficient. For everything else i can spin up some beefy server somewhere in a couple of minutes. And since the hardware is on the market for quite some time, driver issues are mostly resolved. Bonus: used Docking stations and spare power supplies are cheap and the battery can be hot-swapped. Bonus2: since it's already slightly beaten down, making another scratch doesn't hurt as much as if it would've been a shiny new macbook. edit: I think the official term is "refurbished". I can't see myself ever buying a new device again.
trelane 2y ago
System76 is by far the best that I have found. No litany of kludges to make your Windows laptop mostly functional (e.g. no need to have kernel parameters to work around buggy hardware) No need to look compatibility tables and install guides. It ships with Linux preinstalled and with great support. So if you want Linux that Just Works, this is my recommendation. (Also if you want to DIY it with e.g. Arch, since the hardware supports Linux already.)
christophilus 2y ago
I’ve had good experiences with business-grade Dell laptops like the Latitude line. Framework and Thinkpads are generally solid, too. As for distro, Fedora is a great beginner distro.

short_sells_poo 2y ago

Ultimately, the only reason we need to look at is late stage capitalism (and I say this as someone who believes in the market economy). Windows was the historic money maker at Microsoft, they held all the keys, all the power. The regime is changing however. OSes are more and more commoditised and the money has moved to Cloud and now AI. But there is one rule of the market: you have to post gains every quarter. So what is the Windows team to do? There is no growth to be had anywhere else, so they become increasingly less scrupulous in an effort to squeeze more $$$ out of the product. This is obviously a race to the bottom. They know, we know it, the market knows it. However, as long as the numbers keep going up, the market will reward this self destructive behaviour and the team will indulge it. They aren't stupid, they know that these features are annoying, but they'll keep pushing them to find the optimal point between the users being pissed off and profit going up. The risk is of course that they launch a positive feedback loop of exodus and end up destroying the product in the long term, but in the long term we are all dead and the PMs profiting from these user hostile policies will be long retired...

the4anoni 2y ago
I just miss Windows 7 :(
irusensei 2y ago
I also suspect one of the driving reasons is to inflate reports. Sony is doing a similar thing by requiring PSN accounts on PC games - its to show their share holders that MAU number go up.
- short_sells_poo 2y ago
  Absolutely. It's just maximizing some sort of metric that ultimately translates into P&L for the PMs. Everything else is largely irrelevant. If the users bitch and moan, but the PM is getting paid more, they'll be incentivised to keep doing what they are doing. The product may end up dead in 10 years time as the userbase is driven away, but by then everyone responsible is long gone. We can all pontificate about acting differently in their shoes, but I'm honest enough to admit that I wouldn't :D

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Moldoteck 2y ago

I've recently bought a windows laptop for my grandparents and it had W11... It looked bloated af... Had to change some bios settings to install some older version of windows 10 so that the system would look similar to what they know, but I'm thinking next time I'll just install Ubuntu + maybe some skin + rustdesk to help them if needed and deal with it

HeckFeck 2y ago

Sometimes I read the latest news from my adoptive industry and truly ponder the probability that we have been reincarnated in another world's hell.

vezycash 2y ago

They are trying so hard to de-evolve Windows into iOS and android.

haspok 2y ago

This is how Microsoft is fighting piracy: "So you want to use our software and not pay for it, huh? Fine, but in return we need your personal data and behaviour, and we will show you unwanted ads in the Start menu and other places. Deal?"

Filligree 2y ago
No deal. I paid quite a lot for my windows license.
- hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
  And you don't really get an ad-free experience without both finagling a more expensive Enterprise license AND magic GPO/registry incantations to cut the crap. Conclusion: Microsoft is an airline without planes out to monetize misery.

aforty 2y ago

So that means they fixed SMB folder shares with Microsoft accounts, right?

xg15 2y ago

> It seems that Microsoft is aiming to make the use of Windows 11 dependent on a Microsoft account. In combination with the increased calls for Windows users to finally switch to Windows 11, this appears to be a controversial combination. I want to see if they really manage to force several millions of users out of the blue to make a MS account, against the explicit will of those users.

mythz 2y ago

Now that I've started getting Windows 10 EOL Notifications (on aging 2017 hardware), I'll be needing to upgrade to a new Desktop + OS soon. No idea what my next Desktop OS is going to be but definitely don't want ads/spyware in a progressively user hostile OS so it will be the first time where I wont be using Windows as my primary OS. I've been using macOS on my macbooks and deploy exclusively to Linux servers so either OS will be a viable alternative. It will come down to whether Apple can ship compelling M4 H/W at this years WWDC, if they don't I'll be switching to a Linux Desktop OS where it will finally be the year of the Linux Desktop!

guappa 2y ago
I've been getting harassment to update to 11 (on a machine where secure boot is disabled) for a very long time. Plus harassment to stop using a local account, of course.
- BenjiWiebe 2y ago
  IIRC, there is a pretty simple registry edit that can force Windows to remain on the Windows 20 22H2 update channel, i.e. not prompting to install windows 11.

shoozza 2y ago

I wonder how much work it is to check if Windows was installed with an account and terminate the program in that case.

jasonvorhe 2y ago

Okay then, I'll just switch my gaming rig to Ubuntu and fiddle with Wine or whatever to get my Quake Champions running. Might take a small performance hit but I'm not going to use Windows with a Microsoft account. Not ever. Not going to happen.

the4anoni 2y ago
Up to 10% performance hit isn't small. Controversial opinion, but linux isn't good for gaming even in 2024. People who are making such things possible are doing great piece of work, but I would say it's more about gaming industry isn't ready for this. Developers still don't case about linux, performance hit is too big, anti-cheat systems have issues and Linux desktop is too fragmented. OOBE\BYPASSNRO still works at least
- Kim_Bruning 2y ago
  I think it depends what games you play. Steam actually allows you to return a game if it doesn't run on your system (in fact they have a very generous return policy indeed). GOG is a bit more strict, and a bit more hit-and-miss, but also Mostly Works (tm). The unifying factor is steam and/or heroic games launcher (and one or two others besides), which set up your system to run a particular game. Most of the games I've bought in the past year or so Just Work (tm). Obviously YMMV. When it comes to GOG, hilariously, sometimes installing the windows version _on linux_ is the easier option, what with wine/proton forming the universal compatibility layer. I'm sort of wondering if we might evolve to a point where there's proton-for-windows, and then everyone can just target proton exclusively.

whywhywhywhy 2y ago

I'm definitely not one of those people who thinks Windows should stay frozen forever as Windows XP, I appreciate we're finally getting 15-20 year old features like search filtering in the task manager. But whoever's bonus metric is tricking people to sign in with MS accounts is really making it a gross experience. I managed to finally get my new machines install on a local account using "OOBE\BYPASSNRO" although none of the instructions I found online worked for some reason, eventually found the script find myself. Then when trying to eventually register Windows it tricked me into converting to a MS account because the license troubleshooter forces you to login to do anything. Next time I boot my machine its asking for my MS password instead of my local password... So that's taught me to never enter my MS account into anything on the desktop because there is a risk it will silently do that. You have a "Home" and a "Pro" version, really just wish for a world where they do this silly scammy behavior in the Home version and let the Pro version just be an actual tool to use hardware. I'm not using Windows because it's a great operating system I'm only using it because it's the only OS in the Venn diagram of "Supports Nvidia GPUs" and "Runs Adobe CC", can't they just be happy I use it at all.

Dalewyn 2y ago
>and let the Pro version just be an actual tool to use hardware. Pro has Group Policy, among which is an option to block Microsoft account logins at the OS level. It kind of breaks Microsoft 365 subscriptions if you need Office 365, but that's obvious. Other Group Policies include ones to turn off Windows Autoupdates, block OneDrive, block Copilot, and more.
- Y-bar 2y ago
  Any good resources on flipping these switches?
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    Yes: Open Group Policy Editor and play around. There are so many policies you can configure to your heart's content that it's better to learn by doing than hearing.

benterix 2y ago

They go exactly according to the plan. Now you officially don't own your own personal computer.

account42 2y ago
I look forward to see people getting banned from their own computers.

the4anoni 2y ago

They just fixed bug I guess... Unless "OOBE\BYPASSNRO" still works I don't have any problem with that

zb3 2y ago

Very good move, seems like Microsoft really embraces Linux nowadays :)

quantumspandex 2y ago

As consumer-hostile as Microsoft's practices are, and that these things needs to be optional, I find linking your Windows to a Microsoft's account still pretty useful. With it you can sync your Windows settings across different devices. You can use Find My Device. You can save your BitLocker's encryption key to the cloud. It helps when you forgot your login password. Copilot AI stuffs,... Turning off telemetry and deinstalling some bloatware requires clicking through a few menus, but it's still a mostly just-work experience compared to the amount of time I need to set up a Linux box. On Linux, configuring the fingerprint to work everywhere requires reading through different online threads and edit a config file. Enabling TPM auto disk decryption involves 10 steps command line. Enabling proprietary video codecs necessitates adding a third party repository. And many other small issues that I have to troubleshoot (shutdown freezing, sddm crashing after wake-up from sleep, PackageKit unable to update package, having to turn on a kernel flag for touchpad to work...). I really want Linux to work for me but still have to decide to use Windows on my personal laptop, coming from someone who has to work with Linux everyday at work.

poikroequ 2y ago

It really is disgusting that they'll block workarounds like this. Do they REALLY need to force this on the less than 1% of users who might use such workarounds? You can use a program called Rufus to create a bootable flash drive from a Windows ISO which lets you bypass the Microsoft login.

haunter 2y ago

Windows 11 LTSC just came out last week and no online account needed (also no crapware, no TPM, no Secure Boot etc.)

alkonaut 2y ago
I assume a new machine with an OEM Windows license doesn't have the possibility to switch it to LTSC?
- haunter 2y ago
  Not but MS doesn't care about home user piracy either.
Kim_Bruning 2y ago
I'd buy it, but it seems you can only get a volume license or so? How tricky is that to get?
- haunter 2y ago
  If you are a home end user just pirate it, iso is available everywhere and you can activate it with MAS https://archive.org/details/Windows11LTSC https://archive.org/details/Windows11LTSC
raydev 2y ago
Any downsides? In particular, will games work? Visual Studio?
- haunter 2y ago
  There really isn’t any downsides. No feature updates? So if something fancy comes out LTSC doesn't get that just much later (and even then almost everything is removed). The only thing I can imagine if there is some bleeding edge hardware feature that needs the newest Windows version because of drivers, API etc. and that won't work. Windows 10 LTSC only got four feature updates, most of the time years apart so most likely that will be the case with 11 LTSC too https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/ltsc/overview https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/ltsc/ove...

xjay 2y ago

Windows should be broken up. "Windows 11 Platform" for applications, drivers, security updates, and gaming. No (forced) Microsoft account. Only security updates. "Windows 11 Plus" is a subscription model for enhanced features. What their system requirements tell consumers: > Windows 11 Pro for personal use and Windows 11 Home require internet connectivity and a Microsoft account during initial device setup. [1] [1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifica...

flacebo 2y ago

Little bit off topic, sorry. Windows 10 support ending in 2025 is really scary. Literally billions of computers are not eligible to install Windows 11 because of artificial limitations, all of these are supposed to be trashed? That would be an enormous amount of e-waste. Realistically one or a combination of the following will happen: - Microsoft extends the deadline - There will be a paid long term support update channel, and hopefully a registry edit will enable this (happened a couple of times before) - Most people will continue to use it without security updates (most likely) I guess Microsoft will agressively tell you that your OS is not safe, etc, so hopefully a single tool will exist that hides all of these messages and switches to the long term support updates.

guappa 2y ago
Well… KDE is green! https://eco.kde.org/ https://eco.kde.org/
nunez 2y ago
We've been here before with Windows XP. It'll be fine.
devsda 2y ago
May be and just may be, those users will then try some linux distros and realize that it's not so bad and stick with it. Hope that will drive linux adoption a little more.
- sexy_seedbox 2y ago
  2025 will surely be the year of desktop Linux.

npteljes 2y ago

Well, I'll personally weather this storm on my Windows 10 LTSC 21H2. I'm sure people will figure out something until 2027-01-12, when its security supports end, or Microsoft will release the Win 11 LTSC-equivalent.

ptx 2y ago
How do you get a license for the LTSC?
- npteljes 2y ago
  I fake one with vlmcsd.

ofrzeta 2y ago

Somehow I managed getting through the setup of a 2nd hand laptop that came with Win 11 preinstalled. At one point they wanted me to enter a Microsoft account but through back and forth I somehow was able to skip it although I couldn't reproduce it. Probably I accidentally did the same as described in the article. Anyway, requiring a Microsoft account sucks and I wonder if it's even legal in the EU (better to ask for forgiveness than permission, I guess, right MS?). Conclusion is, Microsoft sucks as much as ever, even with all the open source and Microsoft loves Linux.

utensil4778 2y ago

My husband is a normal layperson who treats his computer like an appliance. It's just there to do word processing and web browsing. He's been asking me to buy him a new laptop and specifically wants Windows on it. I've been struggling for weeks trying to explain to him why Windows is bad and why I don't want to setup and manage his spyware machine. I've convinced him to at least try a few Linux distros to see what he's comfortable with, but he either doesn't understand why Windows is bad or just doesn't care. For now I'm avoiding purchasing the new machine, and he's begrudgingly using my manjaro laptop. I really don't know what to do about it. The most solid argument I've got so far is that I can't help him with any of the inevitable windows 11 issues because I just don't use windows anymore.

Mountain_Skies 2y ago
He's his own person. You want to help him avoid future headaches and protect his privacy but ultimately, he is his own person who should be able to make his own choices. Understandably this is difficult for you since you are being asked to buy the new laptop and have valid reasons for not wanting to purchase one with Windows but none of that changes the fact that he is his own person with his own thoughts. You may feel complicit in any trouble his choice brings him since you're involved in the purchasing process but that's on him, not you, if it ends poorly.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  I set up a separate VLAN on my home network to isolate all Windows machines from the rest of the LAN and strictly lock down their access to the outside world, too. Maybe that is an option for OP's home network? Windows machines can safely coexist on your network, but you need to treat them as attackers in your threat model.
CoastalCoder 2y ago
That's a tough situation. Marriage is one of those relationships where hard-line stances (on either side) can be really damaging.
- 2y ago

sigio 2y ago

Still condider windows 2000 to be 'peak windows usability' ... and usable with tiny amounts of ram ;)

rldjbpin 2y ago

i have also noticed dark patterns with making you login if you have a local account. really annoying and at least there should be some respite for pro users.