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Disclaimer: I work at a legal online video streaming site. Jaywalking, doing drugs, and underage drinking are fundamentally acts against rules, not acts agains

by koko775 14y ago

Disclaimer: I work at a legal online video streaming site. Jaywalking, doing drugs, and underage drinking are fundamentally acts against rules, not acts against entities. A risk is being taken and the burden of failure is on the risk-taker. Selling alcohol to minors is unethical. Do I need to get into that? Acquiring media in an unauthorized fashion is an act against the creator and their licensed distributor. That makes it unethical. You can separate whether an action is justified, and whether it's ethical. There are clearly reasons to pirate - valid or not^, the act itself is not ethical. And I think it's clearly so. ^ personal opinion: mostly not There's also the separate but related issue that many believe that entertainment is a right, or that it should be available in all mediums. While I do believe that it should be available anywhere at any time, pirating should not at all be considered an ethical recourse to acquiring it through other means. Art doesn't exist absent the influence of money. Entertainment is commercial art but that doesn't mean that its artistic value excuses the viewer from participating in the artist's (creator's) intentions for distribution.

praxulus 14y ago
Nit picking: Jaywalking can put other people at risk if there's any amount of traffic. On a completely empty stretch of road it's not unethical, but the line between safe and unsafe jaywalking is extremely blurred.
pyre 14y ago
> Selling alcohol to minors is unethical. Do I need to > get into that? Let's. Example: The legal drinking age in Detroit, Michigan, USA is 21 years of age. The legal drinking age in Windsor, Ontario, Canada (right across the river from Detroit) is 19 years old. A 19 year old US citizen drives across the Detroit River and buys a drink at a bar. Is the bar acting unethically? If not, how is it any different (ethically) to sell alcohol to the same 19 year old while in Detroit? Discuss.
- koko775 14y ago
  The bar did not travel state lines. If the laws allow it, they have fulfilled their obligation. If, on the other hand, they are actively targeting and soliciting orders for alcohol from 19-year-old US citizens to pick up and consume, for example, at parties, then perhaps they have done something unethical. That is beside the point, however, as the questions of jurisdiction with respect to copyright are somewhat more well-established than that.
  - pyre 14y ago
    The point I was making: ethical != moral != lawful
    - koko775 14y ago
      I agree.
- corin_ 14y ago
  Few things annoy me as much as people who don't stop to think about this. And it's the same with all age lines that were created by people... For example most people seem to think that having sex with someone who is [country/state's minimum age minus one month] would make you a monster, while [plus one month] is fine, as if that magical line (whether it's drawn at 13, 16, 18, or whatever) actually changes people from naive to "ready for sex".
- pygy_ 14y ago
  The younger you start using an addictive substance, the more likely you are to become addicted. Putting an age limit on drugs use is a matter of public health, and protecting people who are not mature enough to understand the consequences of their acts. Some people take more time than others to reach maturity, so I agree that setting an arbitrary age is not ideal, but it makes some sense.
  - tripzilch 14y ago
    If it were that simple, a country like the Netherlands which has a legal drinking age of 16 (for ABV<20%) should have way more problems with alcohol abuse and addiction than a sensible country such as the USA, which has the drinking age no less than five years later, so significantly less people in the US should suffer alcohol addiction, right? Incidentally, we don't get to take a driver's license test until we're 18, so that's kind of reversed. Care to guess who has more problems with driving under the influence? Won't somebody please think of the CHILDREN?!
    - pygy_ 14y ago
      Your comparison doesn't make any sense. There are other factors, notably cultural, involved. For example, the praise of individualism in the US (which may encourage reckless behavior), and the limited social security net (poverty increases the risk of substance abuse). When you control for other factors, the pattern I described emerge. See: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.1994.tb03360.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.1994.... http://archpedi.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?volume=160&issue=7&page=739 http://archpedi.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?volume=160&... http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2005.01053.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2005.... http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1081/JA-120025123 http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1081/JA-120025123 There are more if you care to look for them. Of course children have to be protected. That's the whole point of education, gradually removing barriers while you teach them (or let them learn) how to get along by themselves. Whether or not the society should have a word on the topic is open for debate. I'm for, to some extent, as you probably guessed.

by koko775 14y ago

praxulus 14y ago

Nit picking: Jaywalking can put other people at risk if there's any amount of traffic. On a completely empty stretch of road it's not unethical, but the line between safe and unsafe jaywalking is extremely blurred.

pyre 14y ago

> Selling alcohol to minors is unethical. Do I need to > get into that? Let's. Example: The legal drinking age in Detroit, Michigan, USA is 21 years of age. The legal drinking age in Windsor, Ontario, Canada (right across the river from Detroit) is 19 years old. A 19 year old US citizen drives across the Detroit River and buys a drink at a bar. Is the bar acting unethically? If not, how is it any different (ethically) to sell alcohol to the same 19 year old while in Detroit? Discuss.

koko775 14y ago
The bar did not travel state lines. If the laws allow it, they have fulfilled their obligation. If, on the other hand, they are actively targeting and soliciting orders for alcohol from 19-year-old US citizens to pick up and consume, for example, at parties, then perhaps they have done something unethical. That is beside the point, however, as the questions of jurisdiction with respect to copyright are somewhat more well-established than that.
- pyre 14y ago
  The point I was making: ethical != moral != lawful
  - koko775 14y ago
    I agree.
corin_ 14y ago
Few things annoy me as much as people who don't stop to think about this. And it's the same with all age lines that were created by people... For example most people seem to think that having sex with someone who is [country/state's minimum age minus one month] would make you a monster, while [plus one month] is fine, as if that magical line (whether it's drawn at 13, 16, 18, or whatever) actually changes people from naive to "ready for sex".
pygy_ 14y ago
The younger you start using an addictive substance, the more likely you are to become addicted. Putting an age limit on drugs use is a matter of public health, and protecting people who are not mature enough to understand the consequences of their acts. Some people take more time than others to reach maturity, so I agree that setting an arbitrary age is not ideal, but it makes some sense.
- tripzilch 14y ago
  If it were that simple, a country like the Netherlands which has a legal drinking age of 16 (for ABV<20%) should have way more problems with alcohol abuse and addiction than a sensible country such as the USA, which has the drinking age no less than five years later, so significantly less people in the US should suffer alcohol addiction, right? Incidentally, we don't get to take a driver's license test until we're 18, so that's kind of reversed. Care to guess who has more problems with driving under the influence? Won't somebody please think of the CHILDREN?!
  - pygy_ 14y ago
    Your comparison doesn't make any sense. There are other factors, notably cultural, involved. For example, the praise of individualism in the US (which may encourage reckless behavior), and the limited social security net (poverty increases the risk of substance abuse). When you control for other factors, the pattern I described emerge. See: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.1994.tb03360.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.1994.... http://archpedi.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?volume=160&issue=7&page=739 http://archpedi.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?volume=160&... http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2005.01053.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2005.... http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1081/JA-120025123 http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1081/JA-120025123 There are more if you care to look for them. Of course children have to be protected. That's the whole point of education, gradually removing barriers while you teach them (or let them learn) how to get along by themselves. Whether or not the society should have a word on the topic is open for debate. I'm for, to some extent, as you probably guessed.