5 ms·

Just give me back normal window headers already. And put Okay/Cancel to the bottom right like any other UI toolkit in existence

by ginko 2y ago

red_admiral 2y ago
I would personally like the title bar of the active window, and only the active window, to be my preferred accent color. Not a 1px colored border, an actual title bar.
- phkahler 2y ago
  And please keep widgets out of the title bar. Those make it very hard to drag windows around because you can't really be certain what can be clicked and dragged to move the window. BTW MS windows does this even worse IMHO - I can't tell what app I'm using (think opening a document say .pdf or even an email in outlook), can't tell which is the active title bar, and not sure what I can drag it by.
  - bityard 2y ago
    I just started using a Mac for work and this is pretty prevalent on Mac as well, possibly that is where it originated. Applications on Mac are a random assortment of regular apps with proper titlebars and apps which effectively have no titlebar. Mac OS keyboard/mouse focus is also intensely weird and inconsistent. The rules for when a click brings a window into mouse and/or keyboard focus are basically unpredictable, as far as I can tell. When you click a window to focus it, some applications use that click to put the keyboard/mouse focus on the widget you clicked on. Others "eat" the click before bringing the window to the foreground. So if you want to activate a specific text field or whatever for keyboard focus, you have to click _twice_ every time you switch focus back to a particular app. But if you do that, you have to _space your clicks apart_ to prevent them from being interpreted as a double-click! Which might maximize the window if you clicked on the area that would otherwise have been the app's title bar! It also throws me off at least once an hour that you use can the mouse scroll wheel and all mouse buttons except 1 and 2 in a window _without_ bringing it into focus. After my work day is done, I am always so much happier to go back to Plasma for my personal stuff and hobbies.
    - red_admiral 2y ago
      Joel Spolsky has an old post on this. Apparently, clicking in a window on the Mac brings that _process_ into the foreground, but not necessarily that window. If process A is in the foreground with window 1, and process B has windows 2 and 3 with 2 in front of 3, so the current window stacking order is 1,2,3 then the effect of clicking in window 3 is in fact to bring window 2 forwards, so the window stacking order is now 2,3,1. Widgets, toolbars and other floating things that are separate windows as far as the window manager is concerned can also affect this. For example, GIMP or other programs that have palettes need to enforce that "the palette is always in front of the main window", which I imagine is handled differently on the Mac to other OSes.
  - tristan957 2y ago
    Widgets in GTK header bars are draggable. Had you even tried it out before commenting?
    - phkahler 2y ago
      >> Widgets in GTK header bars are draggable. Some are and some are not. Have you even tried to understand the complaint before getting snarky? ;-)
      - tristan957 2y ago
        Every application I have tried has draggable widgets.
preisschild 2y ago
Nah. CSDs are great and don't waste space.
- kelnos 2y ago
  In the days of large monitors, and even hidpi on smaller screens, wasting space is not really one of my concerns. I do all my work on a 2256x1504 laptop panel, and the 20px or so used up by my SSD titlebars is completely fine. I was similarly fine with it on my old laptop with a 1080p screen.

Just give me back normal window headers already. And put Okay/Cancel to the bottom right like any other UI toolkit in existence

by ginko 2y ago

Just give me back normal window headers already. And put Okay/Cancel to the bottom right like any other UI toolkit in existence

red_admiral 2y ago

I would personally like the title bar of the active window, and only the active window, to be my preferred accent color. Not a 1px colored border, an actual title bar.

phkahler 2y ago
And please keep widgets out of the title bar. Those make it very hard to drag windows around because you can't really be certain what can be clicked and dragged to move the window. BTW MS windows does this even worse IMHO - I can't tell what app I'm using (think opening a document say .pdf or even an email in outlook), can't tell which is the active title bar, and not sure what I can drag it by.
- bityard 2y ago
  I just started using a Mac for work and this is pretty prevalent on Mac as well, possibly that is where it originated. Applications on Mac are a random assortment of regular apps with proper titlebars and apps which effectively have no titlebar. Mac OS keyboard/mouse focus is also intensely weird and inconsistent. The rules for when a click brings a window into mouse and/or keyboard focus are basically unpredictable, as far as I can tell. When you click a window to focus it, some applications use that click to put the keyboard/mouse focus on the widget you clicked on. Others "eat" the click before bringing the window to the foreground. So if you want to activate a specific text field or whatever for keyboard focus, you have to click _twice_ every time you switch focus back to a particular app. But if you do that, you have to _space your clicks apart_ to prevent them from being interpreted as a double-click! Which might maximize the window if you clicked on the area that would otherwise have been the app's title bar! It also throws me off at least once an hour that you use can the mouse scroll wheel and all mouse buttons except 1 and 2 in a window _without_ bringing it into focus. After my work day is done, I am always so much happier to go back to Plasma for my personal stuff and hobbies.
  - red_admiral 2y ago
    Joel Spolsky has an old post on this. Apparently, clicking in a window on the Mac brings that _process_ into the foreground, but not necessarily that window. If process A is in the foreground with window 1, and process B has windows 2 and 3 with 2 in front of 3, so the current window stacking order is 1,2,3 then the effect of clicking in window 3 is in fact to bring window 2 forwards, so the window stacking order is now 2,3,1. Widgets, toolbars and other floating things that are separate windows as far as the window manager is concerned can also affect this. For example, GIMP or other programs that have palettes need to enforce that "the palette is always in front of the main window", which I imagine is handled differently on the Mac to other OSes.
- tristan957 2y ago
  Widgets in GTK header bars are draggable. Had you even tried it out before commenting?
  - phkahler 2y ago
    >> Widgets in GTK header bars are draggable. Some are and some are not. Have you even tried to understand the complaint before getting snarky? ;-)
    - tristan957 2y ago
      Every application I have tried has draggable widgets.

preisschild 2y ago

Nah. CSDs are great and don't waste space.

kelnos 2y ago
In the days of large monitors, and even hidpi on smaller screens, wasting space is not really one of my concerns. I do all my work on a 2256x1504 laptop panel, and the 20px or so used up by my SSD titlebars is completely fine. I was similarly fine with it on my old laptop with a 1080p screen.