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The first ~40 years of textile manufacturing improvements (from the spinning jenny in the 1760s to the first major steam powered mills in the 1810s and 1820s) w
by highfrequency 2y ago
The first ~40 years of textile manufacturing improvements (from the spinning jenny in the 1760s to the first major steam powered mills in the 1810s and 1820s) was parallel to and largely independent of the steam engine. Concretely, Crompton's spinning mule used hundreds of spindles simultaneously and was driven by water power. This parallel development to the steam engine arc suggests that coal alone can't fully explain the magic of the British industrial revolution.
There was an incentive to innovate and automate, and a political structure that supported it - or at least did not shut it down - that existed independently of Britain's coal deposits and heating needs.
In my view, the deforestation --> coal --> steam engine arc is important, but just one of several factors (other notable factors being global trade dominance founded on the world's strongest navy and most efficient capital markets, as well a parliamentary system consistently advocating for commercial over monarchical interests). Coal deposits and local deforestation near large cities were not unique to Britain (see China, Belgium and Germany).
> After reading Coal - A Human History I’m of the opinion that the industrial revolution was a complete accident of circumstance on a tiny island that didn’t have enough trees to support its population’s energy needs...
This is the part of your initial comment I am responding to. I don't mean to make it a straw man, but I do disagree with the primacy of the deforestation --> coal arc. I think Britain with more trees would still industrialize; on the other hand I think Britain without its trade empire or navy, or Britain run by an all-powerful emperor would not have industrialized first.
Another take on why the trade empire/navy was more primary than deforestation is that the former had a strong causal relationship on the latter. The Royal Navy's shipbuilding was a major cause of deforestation [1], and the growth of international trade was itself a significant driver of London's population growth which in turn caused the forests to be stripped for fuel.
[1] https://legionmagazine.com/the-royal-navys-war-on-trees/ https://legionmagazine.com/the-royal-navys-war-on-trees/
- throwup238 2y ago> My point is that the tremendous pre-steam improvements in spinning and weaving indicate that there was an incentive to innovate and automate - and a political structure that supported it - that was independent of Britain's coal deposits and heating needs. It just sounds like you're trying to make an ideological point.
- AnimalMuppet 2y agoWhat? He's citing facts. (True, he hasn't cited any for the proposition that political structure is important. There are some to cite, though. For instance, see China's 12th-century revolution in iron production that was shut down because the politicians didn't like it.) To me, it sounds like you are so sensitive to a particular axe being ground that you can't hear it when there's objective evidence to support the viewpoint that you're nervous about.
- bowsamic 2y agoI imagine the person you’re replying to is a Marxist
- gumby 2y agoYour sentence is a refreshing (for these days) example use of their term in a normative, rather than political and/or pejorative sense. Marxism is really a consequence of the Victorian era, despite Marx and Engles being German. It is the fruit of not just the economic system of the mid-late 19th century but its social values as well. It makes no sense for the prior period of early industrialization. Also Britain’s political emphasis of commercial activity predates significant industrialization — just look at the enclosure laws and Corn Laws, and compare them to the contemporary extractive view towards commerce in France.
- bowsamic 2y agoThe reason I said it is because they seemed to be implicitly dismissing anything that isn't a historical material factor (i.e. dismissing an ideological explanation that doesn't address the historical material conditions)
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