15 ms·
Go east from Seattle
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- oneepic 2y agoI got really pissed when the headline didn't match the puzzle specs. Still kinda cool to think about at least.
- plorkyeran 2y agoIn this case it seems particularly egregious because the entire trick of the puzzle is that "face East and walk in a straight line" and "Go east from Seattle" aren't the same thing.
- shadowgovt 2y agoYes, and the difference is key: one attempts to travel the same distance with your left foot as with your right foot, and the other chases the direction the stars come up over the horizon.
- a_e_k 2y ago> in a straight line along the Earth’s surface. This already seems suspect, given that the earth's surface is curved. A true straight line from the starting point would take us off into space. So this feels like it's all just quibbling about different curved lines and which is closest to some definition of straight.
- runjake 2y agoFrom the article: > To be pedantic, by ‘straight line’ here I really mean ‘geodesic’ — the > generalisation of ‘straight line’ for curved surfaces and space as well > as ‘flat’, Euclidian spaces. > A geodesic is just the shortest path between two points in a surface. If > you’re placed on a surface and continually walk “forward”, by definition > you will trace out a geodesic. > Some people replying to my original tweet pointed out that a straight > line from the original point and direction would take you into space."
- 12_throw_away 2y agoThis is not correct, not even technically correct. Look up the term "geodesic".
- shadowgovt 2y agoWe need a word like "geodesic" precisely because "a straight line on a sphere" is an ambiguous concept.
- dylan604 2y agoMan, talking about missing the point even pedantically. Good job on impressing me with that
- elwell 2y agoIs not pedantry the aim of this article?
- dylan604 2y agoAt least the article gets it right though
- wang_li 2y agoThe article doesn’t though. East is a path parallel to the equator on a spheroid. East of Seattle is a circle around the globe at a particular latitude. Facing the thing 1mm east of Seattle is a different heading than facing the thing 5000km east of Seattle. As has already been said as soon as you “go”, if you aren’t turning some infinitesimal amount you aren’t going east. It’s only a surprising result when misleading people by arguing that east is a particular heading.
- dylan604 2y agoBut it just said in a straight line to the east. It gave you a cardinal direction to start. From there forward, you go in a straight line. It gets tricky if you suggest that you can only travel along a great circle in the direction of the rotation along that axis. Since the axis is actually tilted, this is the result you get from traveling along that great circle.
- cush 2y agoThe issue people have is with "straight". It's ambiguous. And the simplest, most intuitive interpretation of "straight" in the context of someone directing you to travel East, is to continue travelling East. It's like handing someone a compass pointing East, then saying "walk in a straight line", and expecting them to slowly travel in a wandering arc. It's insane.
- elwell 2y ago> A true straight line from the starting point would take us off into space. How do you know? "Straight" relative to what? The expanding universe? Would continuous adjustments need to be made to account for the displacement due to that expansion? Does this then assume some 'outer' universe / reference container?
- wongarsu 2y agoObviously he meant a geodesic though spacetime, assuming constant speed. Of course your speed does become relevant, but as long as it's positive, "space" seems broadly correct. At least if we ignore the first 10km or so of your journey. A true straight line (geodesic) from the starting point would take us straight into a tree, hill or building. At that point the journey would end since humans can't phase through solid objects. You never reach another country.
- xixixao 2y agoA true straight line from the starting point would take us into the Earth, because space is curved in its proximity.
- seadan83 2y agoStraight line of travel means you do not turn left or right. Different from heading continuously east. In the former, walking straight on the curved surface creates a curved path. In the latter, the compass needle will shift a bit as you travel, so you will be turning a bit to stay on the due easterly course. To your point, this a straight line relative to the traveller while staying on the surface of the globe (which is the premise).
- silisili 2y agoI feel sorry for the first cop who gives you a field sobriety test.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- shagie 2y agoAnother neat aspect of a curved path but a straight line - Finding the longest straight line you could sail without hitting land https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/04/30/143150/computer-scientists-have-found-the-longest-straight-line-you-could-sail-without-hitting/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/04/30/143150/computer-... ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16965650 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16965650 | 145 comments)
- madcaptenor 2y agoFb V xarj guvf jnf tbvat gb or n gevpx ohg V qvqa'g ernyvmr ubj pbhagrevaghvgvir vg jnf tbvat gb or - V gubhtug vg jbhyq raq hc znlor fbzrjurer nebhaq Frartny, qvqa'g guvax vg jbhyq zvff Nsevpn pbzcyrgryl. (rot13-encoded, in case you want the fun of thinking about this yourself)
- _whiteCaps_ 2y agohttps://www.landfallnavigation.com/nga-nautical-chart-17-great-circle-sailing-chart-of-the-north-atlantic-ocean.html https://www.landfallnavigation.com/nga-nautical-chart-17-gre... For small scale marine charts, you can get ones that show the great circle effect.
- dmoy 2y agoSemi related to this exercise, I really forgot how far north most of Northern Europe is. Not even talking Scandinavia... mentally in my head I didn't have France and Germany on the same-ish latitude as WA. All of England is north of the north-most point in the lower 48? Huh.
- wrenky 2y agoIts the moderating effect of the Mediterranean! Its wild to see the temperature differences of Wisconsin, Montana, Dakota(s) compared to France & Spain. All that water helps insulate Europe even those its at a northern latitude.
- VinLucero 2y agoCurrently in Spain and originally from Seattle. Was thinking this very thing earlier today.
- rileyphone 2y agoThere's also the oceanic currents carrying warm water from the gulf. Europe is in a very lucky position.
- PheonixPharts 2y agoIt's actually primarily from the AMOC which is bringing warm water up to the Northern Atlantic from the gulf [0]. Fun fact: a possible consequence of climate change is the near term collapse of the AMOC which would cause drastic cooling in Europe (it also has more severe long-term consequences like leading to an anoxic ocean that emits hydrogen-sulfide instead of oxygen, such events have happened multiple times in Earth's past and played a part in major extinction events [1]). 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_meridional_overturning_circulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_meridional_overturnin... 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_event
- kjsthree 2y agoNorth of the contiguous US but certainly not north of the continental US. /pedantry
- delecti 2y agoLots of the comments are salty about the question's formulation, but it seems really straightforward to me within a couple sentences. I guessed Cuba, which was a too aggressive with the curve, but not too bad conceptually.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- madcaptenor 2y agoI was not aggressive enough with the curve and thought it would hit the coast of west Africa somewhere around Senegal.
- frankus 2y ago> So maybe half a point for “France” if that’s what went through your head. I was thinking France, but I assumed the answer was non-obvious, so I guessed St. Pierre and Miquelon. But you'd have to start somewhere just south of Tacoma and just miss the tip of Nova Scotia on your way to the northern tip of Miquelon.
- pdonis 2y agoUm, before that you'd pass through a good chunk of Ontario and Quebec.
- frankus 2y agoRight, but it said "You will travel across North America, and onto the Atlantic Ocean. Eventually, you will hit another country." So I was thinking the next country you would hit after hitting the Atlantic Ocean if you moved along a line of latitude.
- pdonis 2y ago> it said "You will travel across North America, and onto the Atlantic Ocean. Eventually, you will hit another country." Yes, but it didn't say that country would be the first one you would hit. Of course the intended answer of the article was that you would travel along a great circle and would not hit Canada prior to hitting the Atlantic Ocean. But when the article talked about France, it was assuming that you were thinking of traveling along a curve of constant latitude instead. And if you do that, as I said, you will hit Canada before you hit the Atlantic Ocean. And if the author of the article is going to be pedantic enough to say the reader should have thought of great circles, I'm going to turn that right back on him and say he should have thought of Canada when talking about a curve of constant latitude, and should have recognized that his wording is perfectly consistent with that answer.
- GenerocUsername 2y agoTiniest clarification to the author, you should include the speed at which this person is travelling. Long duration of travel could result in techtonic shifts, so the traveller might even strike Seattle again. Maximum pedantry
- bastawhiz 2y agoDepending on the speed of travel, countries and Seattle may not even exist. A cataclysmic event may occur and "east" may mean something very different (ask our friend Uranus).
- replygirl 2y agoinstructions unclear. the traveler drowned attempting to wade the atlantic, washed up on the virginia coast, and had willed for their family to scatter their ashes in italy.
- lxgr 2y agoLucky them – I ended up in Ontario!
- lalaithion 2y agoIn my opinion all maps of single airplane routes should be shown with a two-point equidistant projection. This clearly shows the straight line between the start and end as the shortest direction, and minimizes distortion along that line. Additionally, all points on the map have accurate distances from either point, and deviations from the geodesic (such as for administrative or weather related reasons) are easily seen. https://www.jasondavies.com/maps/two-point-equidistant/ https://www.jasondavies.com/maps/two-point-equidistant/
- foota 2y agoThe most expensive trip you can take while staying within WA! Perth is in Western Australia, or WA.
- arh68 2y agoSo it's hardly "go east". You're going momentarily east, then southeast. It is interesting what a "straight line" really means, though, in different contexts. I would have to say this is a poor puzzle, though, filed under cheap word tricks & ambiguities.
- re 2y agoThe mental bias towards the Cartesian 2d map projections being what we're so familiar with is strong, and I too instinctively think of "a straight line" as being a straight line on a map. But if you think of the problem at a different scale — say you're standing 50 feet south of the north pole — I feel like you would consider the definition of "face east, then walk forward in a straight line" far less ambiguous. I'd also point out that it's a puzzle, not a standardized test question. Wordplay, tricks and ambiguities are par for the course.
- bialpio 2y agoIt's not a bias for 2d projection. If someone tells me to "go east in a straight line", I think about how practically I'd go about it. In this case, I'd take a compass, point myself to go east, and keep adjusting my bearing so that I keep facing east. Bonjour, France.
- w-j-w 2y ago[dead]
- happytoexplain 2y agoNobody familiar with navigation would say "go east in a straight line" because it's a paradox. That's why they say "maintain an easterly heading", or, for shorter distances (e.g. car directions), "head straight east", as in "exactly east", and not "east in a perfectly straight line", which would be less relevant for shorter distances. It's also why the question is (paraphrased) "start facing east and go in a straight line", and not "go east in a straight line".
- soared 2y agoMore wordplay than anything else. “Go east and then continue straight” is different than “Go east and continue going east”. Results from each are more predictable than misunderstanding the prompt.
- re 2y agoEven if the prompt had been "Imagine a traveling from Seattle along a Great Circle path that initially heads east" to take out the "trick" part of the puzzle, I think I probably would have had a hard time visualizing the path without a physical globe in front of me.
- a_e_k 2y agoYes, if it had just mentioned that it meant a great circle, I would have felt like it wasn't such a gotcha question.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- mulmen 2y agoIf that was the question you’d hit Canada before the Atlantic.
- hnburnsy 2y agoNope to me going straight east means keeping the north pole on your left while travelling on the same latitude. Answer is Canada.
- sokoloff 2y agoIf you go south from downtown Detroit, what’s the first (non-USA) country you enter?
- madcaptenor 2y agobonus question: this was unknown to the writer of what song?
- pchristensen 2y ago"Don't Stop Believin'"
- sokoloff 2y agoHmm. There’s a reference in Don’t Stop Believin’, but I don’t think that’s the song you’re referring to.
- madcaptenor 2y agoNo, that’s what I meant - the “South Detroit” in the song doesn’t exist because that’s Canada.
- happytoexplain 2y agoThis inspired similarly annoyed responses last time it was posted too. It genuinely surprises me to see that on HN. The whole thing can be summarized as "You might think of 'start facing East and go in a straight line' as being the same as 'maintain an Eastern heading', but latitude lines are only straight in the Cartesian abstraction we're used to, and not in reality." I hadn't thought about it before. It's interesting. It's not some kind of cheap or stupid trick intended to embarrass you. The negativity is truly baffling.
- ajkjk 2y agoWell they called it "Go east" so maybe it feels like a trick that they didn't go east? Instead they worded their actual question in a subtly different way and then said "gotcha". It's a cool observation and would have been cool without the pedantry, too.
- brokencode 2y agoDid they change the title of the blog post? When I open it, it says “A path from Seattle”. The “Go east” part is only in the Hacker News post.
- mc10 2y agoThe Substack version says "Go east from Seattle": https://finmoorhouse.substack.com/p/go-east-from-seattle https://finmoorhouse.substack.com/p/go-east-from-seattle
- finm 2y agoYes, I changed the title to the linked page to ‘A path from Seattle’ from ‘Go east from Seattle’ because, from reading the comments here, I agree the original title was too misleading. Just updated the title of the Substack post also.
- plorkyeran 2y agoIt's a trick question regardless of if the intent was to educate the reader or to make them feel stupid. You have to spot that the question both isn't asking what the title suggests it's asking and that the image isn't actually showing the direction you'd go. People tend not to like trick questions.
- bagels 2y agoThe title is asking for something different from the problem statement.
- msikora 2y agoIn a truly "straight" line you'd go into space soon...
- adamredwoods 2y agoCorrect answer. BTW, this is all about which coordinate system for a "straight line", is being used.
- furyofantares 2y agoI knew what this was gonna be and enjoyed the puzzle within those constraints. My first thought was Australia but then I decided on "somewhere in Africa, probably South Africa" which it looks like was a close guess.
- francisofascii 2y agoWonder how much question's success rate would increase if the question was, "what is the first continent you hit?"
- finm 2y agoAuthor here. Reading these comments I agree that the title is far too misleading (and unnecessarily so). Changed to “A path from Seattle”.
- cush 2y agoTravel exactly due East. Now, ignore what East means. Then, ignore the giant white arrow pointing East into Montana in the image we've created to illustrate this question. Also, don't worry about anything called a Great Circle, it's completely unimportant. What country would you first encounter? Did you get it, idiot? No? Let me explain to you why you're wrong. First, you completely missed that the Great Circle I told you not to worry about doesn't actually follow along the white arrow I used to illustrate the problem. Clearly, if you completely ignore all the information that was given to you, and what East is, the answer is obviously Australia. Because if you were at the North Pole, a line going East would be a tight circle. Please like and subscribe. To leave a comment, first you must solve this simple math problem 6 ÷ 2(1+2) = ?
- mc10 2y agoThe instructions state the following: > Imagine you begin a journey in Seattle WA, facing exactly due east. Then start traveling forward, in a straight line along the Earth’s surface. Where does it say to "travel exactly due East"?
- lxgr 2y agoThe instructions are impossible to follow, since there are no straight lines (in all three dimensions) along the Earth's surface. And if it's supposed to mean "a straight line when projected onto a map", I'd like to know: Which map projection? :)
- enoch_r 2y agoImagine you're on a snowmachine 10 feet south of the North Pole pointing due east. I tell you to ride for 10 miles without turning. You don't need to worry about map projections or anything - just don't turn. When you stop, are you still 10 feet south of the North Pole? Clearly not, you'll be about 10 miles south of the pole. It's exactly the same if you start in Seattle. If you drive for 10 miles without turning, when you stop you will no longer be at Seattle's latitude - you'll have gone south.