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> People think nihilism and absurdism to be very pessimistic philosophies Well they are, and embracing them rather than entertaining them is probably a good wa

> People think nihilism and absurdism to be very pessimistic philosophies Well they are, and embracing them rather than entertaining them is probably a good way to get the soul-sickness. What you're describing sounds closer to Existentialism. It gets put into this group sometimes too, but I don't think that's correct. My interpretation is that it's a more optimistic alternative where meaning exists, but it is fundamentally subjective & completely personal. Embracing existentialism may feel like a heavy burden for some, but others will find it liberating since the emphasis is on personal responsibility. Like nihilism and absurdism, it requires no special faith in external things. But like Stoic or Zen traditions, it's actually pretty empowering. Responsibility for your life and its philosophy is a gift and a curse though, because there's so much work to do and that can feel overwhelming. No one is coming for us, we have to save ourselves.

fellowniusmonk 2y ago
Actually I find this to be exactly the opposite (absurdism is pessimistic) because of the way our(my?) brains are wired to have existential thoughts, I think existential thoughts are fundamental in a way that formalized existentialism is not. When I was a theist I would sometimes lay awake at night wondering if maybe I was wrong and everything was meaningless! Once I was NOT a theist I would sometimes lay awake at night wondering if maybe I was wrong and everything has meaning! Believe that everything is meaningless, truly believe it and you realize how little is known. Oh, sure I still believe everything is absurd... but late at night... what if everything is full of meaning? My knowledge is unfortunately not exhaustive. I think no matter how deeply you investigate reality, and how many hypothesis and traditions self select out as untenable or plain false, intellectual humility is the real basis for happiness. I also now suppose that increasing knowledge and "unknown reduction" is basically the foundational basis for morality as a species as well. And I think this may actually be a decent and grounded basis for moral reasoning and moral realism. I don't know a single religion that actually says we should pursue real ignorance, that uplifts ignorance as a state to pursue and increase. Unlearning "false" knowledge, sure, unlearning "habits", sure, but stupidity and ignorance, Pignorance if you will, are never viewed as the state we should pursue. So I think the basis of morality and moral reasoning is a system that maximizes the number of avenues of pursuing knowledge. The greater the number of free (not in the deterministic/freewill sense) moral agents we can have running in our universe over time the more likely we are to find something if it is out there (over time.), and if not? Well, that's for a future generation to worry about if they ever manage to square the circle.
- sph 2y ago
  > I don't know a single religion that actually says we should pursue real ignorance The closest thing to this is Taoism, and it's the least religious of religion. It's the most encompassing of philosophies. There is the Tao. It's everywhere and in everything. You won't ever be able to understand, define, touch, taste it, but you and everything else is part of it. Now go do whatever. As Alan Watts said, Taoism is the purest of religions, all other religions are for people that don't get it so need to be taught verbosely and in details what is fundamentally unexplainable. I'm a bonafide atheist, and I believe the Tao Te Ching to be one of the greatest cultural works every created.

fellowniusmonk 2y ago

Actually I find this to be exactly the opposite (absurdism is pessimistic) because of the way our(my?) brains are wired to have existential thoughts, I think existential thoughts are fundamental in a way that formalized existentialism is not. When I was a theist I would sometimes lay awake at night wondering if maybe I was wrong and everything was meaningless! Once I was NOT a theist I would sometimes lay awake at night wondering if maybe I was wrong and everything has meaning! Believe that everything is meaningless, truly believe it and you realize how little is known. Oh, sure I still believe everything is absurd... but late at night... what if everything is full of meaning? My knowledge is unfortunately not exhaustive. I think no matter how deeply you investigate reality, and how many hypothesis and traditions self select out as untenable or plain false, intellectual humility is the real basis for happiness. I also now suppose that increasing knowledge and "unknown reduction" is basically the foundational basis for morality as a species as well. And I think this may actually be a decent and grounded basis for moral reasoning and moral realism. I don't know a single religion that actually says we should pursue real ignorance, that uplifts ignorance as a state to pursue and increase. Unlearning "false" knowledge, sure, unlearning "habits", sure, but stupidity and ignorance, Pignorance if you will, are never viewed as the state we should pursue. So I think the basis of morality and moral reasoning is a system that maximizes the number of avenues of pursuing knowledge. The greater the number of free (not in the deterministic/freewill sense) moral agents we can have running in our universe over time the more likely we are to find something if it is out there (over time.), and if not? Well, that's for a future generation to worry about if they ever manage to square the circle.

sph 2y ago
> I don't know a single religion that actually says we should pursue real ignorance The closest thing to this is Taoism, and it's the least religious of religion. It's the most encompassing of philosophies. There is the Tao. It's everywhere and in everything. You won't ever be able to understand, define, touch, taste it, but you and everything else is part of it. Now go do whatever. As Alan Watts said, Taoism is the purest of religions, all other religions are for people that don't get it so need to be taught verbosely and in details what is fundamentally unexplainable. I'm a bonafide atheist, and I believe the Tao Te Ching to be one of the greatest cultural works every created.