4 ms·

Honestly, I like both of your posts. Thanks for the follow-up. Your thoughts are insightful. I hear it a lot that "too much information is ruining us", but w

by throwaway2037 2y ago

Honestly, I like both of your posts. Thanks for the follow-up. Your thoughts are insightful. I hear it a lot that "too much information is ruining us", but what about crap daily newspapers that came in mass around 1900, then radio, then over-air television, then cable television? All of these are about providing large amounts of low quality information. These days, you can get satellite TV with 500 (five hundred!) channels. It must be 99% rubbish content. I guess the difference now is that the web is much more interactive, and our minds can be more easily hooked as a result. Dunno; when I was growing up, the kids who gorged themselves on shitty cable TV weren't the brightest bulbs in the chandelier. I feel the same now in the Internet era. My point for this post: Each time I hear (paraphrased): "It is different this time.", I try to imagine the world 25 years ago. Then think: Is this really that different? Most of time, I think, "No, it isn't that different." (I use the same mental exercise when I hear people say that "this generation is so different than the last for reason A, B, or C.")

usrbinbash 2y ago
> but what about crap daily newspapers that came in mass around 1900, then radio, then over-air television, then cable television? a) None of these were, first algorithmically, and then using machine learning, optimized to constantly grab attention and maximize interaction time on an individual basis. b) None of them had the interactive effects where peoples interactions with one another are guided and used, to draw them into echo chambers which are, again, designed to maximize interaction time. > Then think: Is this really that different? Yes. It is. Simple example: How do politically motivated troll armies influence an election in a reality where people don't use social media as their primary news source? Answer: They don't. They can (and likely have) bought some space in some low-quality tabloid through strawmen, but that has nowhere near the range and impact of one guy in some government office pretending to be 100000 "Average Joes" halfway across the globe.
- boomboomsubban 2y ago
  >Simple example: How do politically motivated troll armies influence an election in a reality where people don't use social media as their primary news source? By having one super rich troll run for president and buy hour long slots of evening broadcasting. See Ross Perot.
  - advael 2y ago
    I mean there's a world of difference between "Perhaps millions of people, given motivation and a bit of luck, can pull off a thing" and "A super rich guy can pull off a thing" This is the whole reason people talk about middle-class modern humans of various recent eras "living like kings" in comparison to humans of less recent eras. The thing (Maybe that's "having people from across the world entertain you in your living room", maybe it's "Eating elaborately prepared deserts made out of refined sugar") was possible for some before, but not nearly as many. This is the kind of thing technology tends to change most often. Not best-case capability, but access and scale Like some of those things are mass-produced superstimulus facsimiles and not good in the same way they were for the ultrawealthy of old, but even those genuinely are changes in how the world effectively works
    - smolder 2y ago
      > deserts I like to use the mnemonic "One S for sand, two S's for tasty shit."
      - advael 2y ago
        A typo in this case, but appreciated nonetheless The warlords gathering with deserts in their eyes may never get their just deserts even if their habit of eating just desserts leaves them obese For while we may get told every other day we live like kings, I am more of a mind to suffer no kings at all in the first place
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- mistermann 2y ago
  > How do politically motivated troll armies influence an election in a reality where people don't use social media as their primary news source? Answer: They don't. To what degree do they "influence" an election in our "reality"? (And, how many people can even genuinely and substantially wonder what the truth of the matter is after growing up in countries subject to Western "influence"?)
  - usrbinbash 2y ago
    > To what degree do they "influence" an election in our "reality"? - https://www.npr.org/2019/04/24/716374421/fact-check-russian-interference-went-far-beyond-facebook-ads-kushner-described https://www.npr.org/2019/04/24/716374421/fact-check-russian-... - https://www.axios.com/2021/07/09/facebook-book-russia-zuckerberg-sandberg https://www.axios.com/2021/07/09/facebook-book-russia-zucker... - https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/11/18/how-russia-weaponized-social-media-got-caught-escaped-consequences/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/11/18/how-russi... - https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN25S5UA/ https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN25S5UA/ - https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/01/technology/facebook-russia-disinformation-election.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/01/technology/facebook-russi... - https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/21/facebook-us-2020-elections-foreign-interference-russia https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/21/facebook-... - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/russias-2024-election-interference-already-begun-rcna134204 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/russias-2024-ele... Not limited to the US either: - https://time.com/4955503/germany-elections-2017-far-right-russia-angela-merkel/ https://time.com/4955503/germany-elections-2017-far-right-ru... - https://www.politico.eu/article/russian-botnet-promotes-far-right-messages-in-german-election/ https://www.politico.eu/article/russian-botnet-promotes-far-... - https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-influence-hackers-social-media-facebok-operation-thriving/ https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-influence-hackers-soc... - https://www.euractiv.com/section/elections/news/germany-uncovers-russian-disinformation-campaign-on-x/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/elections/news/germany-unco...
    - mistermann 2y ago
      In percentage terms please, and please explicitly acknowledge opinions as such. Sorry for ruining a good story (did you even notice you didn't answer the question, but instead posted a bunch of stories...how do you think these things work), but the topic and specific nature of the accusations (misinformation) demands it.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
nsagent 2y ago
> Each time I hear (paraphrased): "It is different this time.", I try to imagine the world 25 years ago. Then think: Is this really that different? Most of time, I think, "No, it isn't that different." Just be careful not to base your conclusion on anecdata. There are legitimate differences amongst generations in addition to the many commonly held misconceptions, e.g. Millennials are poorer than Boomers were at the same age. I'd you're interested, check out Jean Twenge's book "Generations" for a look at the differences backed by the best available data.

usrbinbash 2y ago

> but what about crap daily newspapers that came in mass around 1900, then radio, then over-air television, then cable television? a) None of these were, first algorithmically, and then using machine learning, optimized to constantly grab attention and maximize interaction time on an individual basis. b) None of them had the interactive effects where peoples interactions with one another are guided and used, to draw them into echo chambers which are, again, designed to maximize interaction time. > Then think: Is this really that different? Yes. It is. Simple example: How do politically motivated troll armies influence an election in a reality where people don't use social media as their primary news source? Answer: They don't. They can (and likely have) bought some space in some low-quality tabloid through strawmen, but that has nowhere near the range and impact of one guy in some government office pretending to be 100000 "Average Joes" halfway across the globe.

boomboomsubban 2y ago
>Simple example: How do politically motivated troll armies influence an election in a reality where people don't use social media as their primary news source? By having one super rich troll run for president and buy hour long slots of evening broadcasting. See Ross Perot.
- advael 2y ago
  I mean there's a world of difference between "Perhaps millions of people, given motivation and a bit of luck, can pull off a thing" and "A super rich guy can pull off a thing" This is the whole reason people talk about middle-class modern humans of various recent eras "living like kings" in comparison to humans of less recent eras. The thing (Maybe that's "having people from across the world entertain you in your living room", maybe it's "Eating elaborately prepared deserts made out of refined sugar") was possible for some before, but not nearly as many. This is the kind of thing technology tends to change most often. Not best-case capability, but access and scale Like some of those things are mass-produced superstimulus facsimiles and not good in the same way they were for the ultrawealthy of old, but even those genuinely are changes in how the world effectively works
  - smolder 2y ago
    > deserts I like to use the mnemonic "One S for sand, two S's for tasty shit."
    - advael 2y ago
      A typo in this case, but appreciated nonetheless The warlords gathering with deserts in their eyes may never get their just deserts even if their habit of eating just desserts leaves them obese For while we may get told every other day we live like kings, I am more of a mind to suffer no kings at all in the first place
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
mistermann 2y ago
> How do politically motivated troll armies influence an election in a reality where people don't use social media as their primary news source? Answer: They don't. To what degree do they "influence" an election in our "reality"? (And, how many people can even genuinely and substantially wonder what the truth of the matter is after growing up in countries subject to Western "influence"?)
- usrbinbash 2y ago
  > To what degree do they "influence" an election in our "reality"? - https://www.npr.org/2019/04/24/716374421/fact-check-russian-interference-went-far-beyond-facebook-ads-kushner-described https://www.npr.org/2019/04/24/716374421/fact-check-russian-... - https://www.axios.com/2021/07/09/facebook-book-russia-zuckerberg-sandberg https://www.axios.com/2021/07/09/facebook-book-russia-zucker... - https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/11/18/how-russia-weaponized-social-media-got-caught-escaped-consequences/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/11/18/how-russi... - https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN25S5UA/ https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN25S5UA/ - https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/01/technology/facebook-russia-disinformation-election.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/01/technology/facebook-russi... - https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/21/facebook-us-2020-elections-foreign-interference-russia https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/21/facebook-... - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/russias-2024-election-interference-already-begun-rcna134204 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/russias-2024-ele... Not limited to the US either: - https://time.com/4955503/germany-elections-2017-far-right-russia-angela-merkel/ https://time.com/4955503/germany-elections-2017-far-right-ru... - https://www.politico.eu/article/russian-botnet-promotes-far-right-messages-in-german-election/ https://www.politico.eu/article/russian-botnet-promotes-far-... - https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-influence-hackers-social-media-facebok-operation-thriving/ https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-influence-hackers-soc... - https://www.euractiv.com/section/elections/news/germany-uncovers-russian-disinformation-campaign-on-x/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/elections/news/germany-unco...
  - mistermann 2y ago
    In percentage terms please, and please explicitly acknowledge opinions as such. Sorry for ruining a good story (did you even notice you didn't answer the question, but instead posted a bunch of stories...how do you think these things work), but the topic and specific nature of the accusations (misinformation) demands it.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

nsagent 2y ago

> Each time I hear (paraphrased): "It is different this time.", I try to imagine the world 25 years ago. Then think: Is this really that different? Most of time, I think, "No, it isn't that different." Just be careful not to base your conclusion on anecdata. There are legitimate differences amongst generations in addition to the many commonly held misconceptions, e.g. Millennials are poorer than Boomers were at the same age. I'd you're interested, check out Jean Twenge's book "Generations" for a look at the differences backed by the best available data.