5 ms·

> The Cat even allowed you to include computer code in the middle of a document that could be executed with a button press. I miss the 1980's. If I recall corr

by II2II 2y ago

> The Cat even allowed you to include computer code in the middle of a document that could be executed with a button press. I miss the 1980's. If I recall correctly, Raskin conceived the Macintosh as a computer that was easy to use for ordinary people yet also incorporated the means for ordinary people to program the machine. The solution was to make it easier to program. (Something that was added as an afterthought to Jobs' re-envisioned Macintosh with Bill Atkinson's Hypercard.) The general view was that those who used computers should be creators, not just consumers. Contrast that to modern computers. While most can be programmed by the end user, the entry points are rarely obvious. The vast majority of languages that are easy to learn are regarded as learner or toy languages. Many of the professional languages are several orders of magnitude more difficult to use than their equivalents in the 1980's (often for good reasons, but it doesn't help the cause).

Nition 2y ago
Even going back to Windows 95, there's a lot more visible effort made to let basic users become power users than I notice today. For example there's a shortcut to Task Scheduler right in the taskbar, which takes you to a very simple task scheduling interface.
- GeekyBear 2y ago
  By the time Windows 95 shipped, Mac OS had a system wide user friendly scripting language that integrated functionality exposed by third party applications alongside the functionality of the OS. https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleScript https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleScript To give users an easy onramp, AppleScript would allow you to hit a record button in the script editor and watch you carry out a series of actions in the OS as well as third party applications and convert those actions into editable AppleScript code on the fly.
bangonkeyboard 2y ago
"We're trying to get away from programming. We've got to get away from programming because people don't want to program computers. People want to use computers." — Steve Jobs, 1983
GeekyBear 2y ago
> Raskin conceived the Macintosh as a computer that was easy to use for ordinary people yet also incorporated the means for ordinary people to program the machine. Something that was added as an afterthought to Jobs' re-envisioned Macintosh with Bill Atkinson's Hypercard. Apple created an in-house Macintosh version of Basic that was intended to ship with the Mac, but Microsoft threatened to yank Apple's license for Microsoft Basic on the Apple II if Apple released MacBasic for the Mac. Andy Hertzfeld shared the story of how this all played out: > We decided we should write [Basic] ourselves, instead of relying on a third party, because it was important for the Basic programs to be able to take advantage of the Macintosh UI, and we didn't trust a third party to "get it" enough to do it right... Apple's original deal with Microsoft for licensing Applesoft Basic had a term of eight years, and it was due to expire in September 1985. Apple still depended on the Apple II for the lion's share of its revenues, and it would be difficult to replace Microsoft Basic without fragmenting the software base. Bill Gates had Apple in a tight squeeze, and, in an early display of his ruthless business acumen, he exploited it to the hilt. https://folklore.org/MacBasic.html https://folklore.org/MacBasic.html After Microsoft forced Apple to kill MacBasic, they shipped Microsoft Basic for Mac, and it was indeed absolutely terrible when it came to creating programs that took advantage of the Mac UI. It wasn't until HyperCard shipped a couple of years later that truly user friendly GUI based programming landed on the Mac.
- abecedarius 2y ago
  MS must've made practically nothing on Microsoft Basic for Mac. Did they expect to? Or was it pure platform sabotage?
  - KerrAvon 2y ago
    It wasn’t intentional sabotage. (a) MS expected to make money on the Mac, and did for many years with Word and Excel (well before they were bundled into Office), among others. The best versions of Excel and Word were on the Mac for a long time. (b) Microsoft eventually released a QuickBasic for the Mac that was capable of producing apps with a real Mac UI. IIRC, the IDE wasn’t very good, but it was capable enough at the time.
  - 2y ago
agumonkey 2y ago
When I saw Word 6 (dos) templating macro instructions I was quite shocked. It's not far from "web dev" work, yet you'd have people in all kinds of offices automating simple parts of their documents.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Cyberdog 2y ago
I'd argue that the "toy language" concept was well in place on '80s computers. You could get into BASIC easily and do stuff, but if you wanted to do complex games or fast graphics or anything non-trivial, you had to learn assembly - BASIC was the "toy language."
HeckFeck 2y ago
Sounds like Apple would've had something like Visual Basic but 5 years before Microsoft if it had a drag and drop interface for creating GUIs. But Jobs went on to do that on the NeXT.
- OnlyMortal 2y ago
  Interface Builder was a marvel.

by II2II 2y ago

Nition 2y ago

Even going back to Windows 95, there's a lot more visible effort made to let basic users become power users than I notice today. For example there's a shortcut to Task Scheduler right in the taskbar, which takes you to a very simple task scheduling interface.

GeekyBear 2y ago
By the time Windows 95 shipped, Mac OS had a system wide user friendly scripting language that integrated functionality exposed by third party applications alongside the functionality of the OS. https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleScript https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleScript To give users an easy onramp, AppleScript would allow you to hit a record button in the script editor and watch you carry out a series of actions in the OS as well as third party applications and convert those actions into editable AppleScript code on the fly.

bangonkeyboard 2y ago

"We're trying to get away from programming. We've got to get away from programming because people don't want to program computers. People want to use computers." — Steve Jobs, 1983

GeekyBear 2y ago

> Raskin conceived the Macintosh as a computer that was easy to use for ordinary people yet also incorporated the means for ordinary people to program the machine. Something that was added as an afterthought to Jobs' re-envisioned Macintosh with Bill Atkinson's Hypercard. Apple created an in-house Macintosh version of Basic that was intended to ship with the Mac, but Microsoft threatened to yank Apple's license for Microsoft Basic on the Apple II if Apple released MacBasic for the Mac. Andy Hertzfeld shared the story of how this all played out: > We decided we should write [Basic] ourselves, instead of relying on a third party, because it was important for the Basic programs to be able to take advantage of the Macintosh UI, and we didn't trust a third party to "get it" enough to do it right... Apple's original deal with Microsoft for licensing Applesoft Basic had a term of eight years, and it was due to expire in September 1985. Apple still depended on the Apple II for the lion's share of its revenues, and it would be difficult to replace Microsoft Basic without fragmenting the software base. Bill Gates had Apple in a tight squeeze, and, in an early display of his ruthless business acumen, he exploited it to the hilt. https://folklore.org/MacBasic.html https://folklore.org/MacBasic.html After Microsoft forced Apple to kill MacBasic, they shipped Microsoft Basic for Mac, and it was indeed absolutely terrible when it came to creating programs that took advantage of the Mac UI. It wasn't until HyperCard shipped a couple of years later that truly user friendly GUI based programming landed on the Mac.

abecedarius 2y ago
MS must've made practically nothing on Microsoft Basic for Mac. Did they expect to? Or was it pure platform sabotage?
- KerrAvon 2y ago
  It wasn’t intentional sabotage. (a) MS expected to make money on the Mac, and did for many years with Word and Excel (well before they were bundled into Office), among others. The best versions of Excel and Word were on the Mac for a long time. (b) Microsoft eventually released a QuickBasic for the Mac that was capable of producing apps with a real Mac UI. IIRC, the IDE wasn’t very good, but it was capable enough at the time.
- 2y ago

agumonkey 2y ago

When I saw Word 6 (dos) templating macro instructions I was quite shocked. It's not far from "web dev" work, yet you'd have people in all kinds of offices automating simple parts of their documents.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Cyberdog 2y ago

I'd argue that the "toy language" concept was well in place on '80s computers. You could get into BASIC easily and do stuff, but if you wanted to do complex games or fast graphics or anything non-trivial, you had to learn assembly - BASIC was the "toy language."

HeckFeck 2y ago

Sounds like Apple would've had something like Visual Basic but 5 years before Microsoft if it had a drag and drop interface for creating GUIs. But Jobs went on to do that on the NeXT.

OnlyMortal 2y ago
Interface Builder was a marvel.